TJ best coach we have ever had?

[Al_4_State]

We don't know yet.

This. It SEEMS like he is, but on paper Floyd, Eustachy, Hoiberg, and even Prohm all accomplished a Sweet 16, a conference tournament title, a regular season title, or in Larry's case all 3. TJ only has the Sweet 16 so far of those Big 3 accomplishments.

I suspect when we look back on this in 10 years the answer will be TJ by a landslide, but there aren't enough data points to make the claim thus far.

 

[Al_4_State]

McDermott and it’s not even close. The way he got the McDonald’s All American from Ames to almost commit to Iowa State was a masterpiece. /sarc/

McDermott managed to do things that have never been replicated by any other coach in my lifetime (born in '85).

-He's the only ISU coach in my lifetime to not beat a ranked team in Hilton.
-He's the only ISU coach in my lifetime to not coach a ranked team.
-He's the only ISU coach in my lifetime to fail to win a game in the NCAA tournament.
-He's the only ISU coach in my lifetime to fail to reach the NCAA tournament.
-He's the only ISU coach in my lifetime to fail to reach any post season tournament.

Truly a ground breaker.

 

[Kinch]

Not only did Johnny start Hilton magic, but I would argue he helped built the Big 8 into a powerhouse. A Ted Owens used to have good teams for KU, but after Johnny, he quickly fell on hard times and got fired. KU hired Larry Brown and then Danny Manning came. OU hired Billy Tubbs, then Wayman Tisdale came. When Johnny got hired, the Big 8 basically had one coach worth his salt, Norm Stewart. Within a couple of years, the best players and best coaches were in the Big 8. And within 8 years, the Big 8 had KU and OU play for the national championship. And the Big 12 is still enjoying being known as the best basketball conference. If Iowa State didn’t hire Johnny, does this happen. Don’t know, but I am glad we didn’t find out.

 

[KnappShack]

Not only did Johnny start Hilton magic, but I would argue he helped built the Big 8 into a powerhouse. A Ted Owens used to have good teams for KU, but after Johnny, he quickly fell on hard times and got fired. KU hired Larry Brown and then Danny Manning came. OU hired Billy Tubbs, then Wayman Tisdale came. When Johnny got hired, the Big 8 basically had one coach worth his salt, Norm Stewart. Within a couple of years, the best players and best coaches were in the Big 8. And within 8 years, the Big 8 had KU and OU play for the national championship. And the Big 12 is still enjoying being known as the best basketball conference. If Iowa State didn’t hire Johnny, does this happen. Don’t know, but I am glad we didn’t find out.

Unless they hired Mike Krzyzewski instead.

 

[Kinch]

Unless they hired Mike Krzyzewski instead.

true.

 

[cycloneML]

Remember what happened after people posted this about CMC? Good times.

 

[RollClones14]

This thread got me reading old coaches wikipedia pages and holy moly did Wayne Morgan write his own wikipedia page?! You would think he was the best coach to come through Ames ever. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Morgan_(basketball)

 

[AuH2O]

Not only did Johnny start Hilton magic, but I would argue he helped built the Big 8 into a powerhouse. A Ted Owens used to have good teams for KU, but after Johnny, he quickly fell on hard times and got fired. KU hired Larry Brown and then Danny Manning came. OU hired Billy Tubbs, then Wayman Tisdale came. When Johnny got hired, the Big 8 basically had one coach worth his salt, Norm Stewart. Within a couple of years, the best players and best coaches were in the Big 8. And within 8 years, the Big 8 had KU and OU play for the national championship. And the Big 12 is still enjoying being known as the best basketball conference. If Iowa State didn’t hire Johnny, does this happen. Don’t know, but I am glad we didn’t find out.

In addition to Brown and Tubbs, about 5-6 years after Orr got hired KSU hired Kruger. Hell, you could even throw in that Nebraska hired Danny Nee, who had a stretch of 8 years where they went to 5 NCAA tourneys. Though it didn't work out, OSU hired Leonard Hamilton about that time too before hiring Sutton.

In the decade or so after Orr got hired, the Big 8 drastically changed for the better. He was definitely a big part of that by taking a bottom feeder to become at least a solid team with a hell of a home court advantage.

 

[Jer]

I think people fall into one of two camps. Those that look at the personality and coaching success vs the pure stats and success side. Neither is right or wrong, but will never line up.

Johnny made Iowa State a basketball school, but it wasn't necessarily because of the results on the court come the end of the year.

Tim Floyd was an excellent coach but his personality was stiff and he just wasn't here long enough.

Larry had arguably the best start of any coach, but that was by inheriting a ton of talent and he trailed off a bit as the time went by. He was very likeable but also gave us a huge black eye.

I refuse to acknowledge Morgan.

GMac was a wonderful person but didn't get any results.

Fred had the charisma and early success. People loved him almost as much or as much as Johnny. He had both success and personality, but he basically stopped aggressively recruiting the last 2 years and others were catching up with the transfer concept. I think his success was less about X's and O's as it was finding the right players at the right time.

Prohm had a lot of talent go through the program with arguably mediocre results relative to said talent. One can make a good argument his success was because of recruiting rather than coaching, but that could also be false.

TJ has the charisma and personality above all but Fred and Johnny. His true passion for the school makes up for any of that and gives him a leg up on others. He's also a beast of a recruiter and was responsible for much of the talent prior to his HC time. He took over a 2-22 program and despite that and all the headwinds in CBB has the 2nd best winning percentage in ISU history. Those results might not have the height of TF or LE just yet, but his coaching job was arguably much, much harder given the circumstances, state of the program, all time height of the Big 12 in basketball, NIL disadvantages, a barebones cupboard, etc.

So in my eyes, arguments can be made for many when looking from different angles. However, if you consider what he took over and has had to swim upstream against, TJ has done arguably the most amazing job of coaching, program rebuilding, and getting the most out of his players as anybody before.

 

[demoncore1031]

TJ is winning with less talented rosters than some of our past coaches. This team is talented, but not even close to the talent Hoiberg, Orr, Eustachy or Floyd had. And that is called great coaching. This team is mentally and physically tough and they play solid defense, but I don't know if there's a single player on this roster that will play in the NBA. Lipsey maybe?

24-6 with a 13-4 conference record is very impressive in what is possibly the best conference in college hoops. But it's still too early to determine where TJ ranks amongst ISU coaches. Let's see how far he takes us in the tourney.

Anyways, I'm excited to have TJ in Ames. The future is looking great.

 

[clone52]

This is a tough topic because its pretty subjective. Sometimes I feel like Larry is the answer here because he won two outright Big 12 Titles (the ones that actually matter) and reached the Elite 8, but Larry inherited a pretty good program from Tim Floyd. Larry gets the nod since he called the Xs and Os, but I think its a combo of Larry at 1, and then Tim/Fred at 2a/2b. Johnny Orr is 3rd. I have no clue where to put Otz yet, but he'll rise quickly with a tournament run this year, and continuing this success into Year 4 & 5.

That is a fair analysis, however, the Big 12 wasn't nearly as strong back then as has been the last decade. Plus, wasn't team chemistry awful that second year which may have lead to the late season upsets? That and the fact that a lot of coaches could have coached the Fizer/Tinsley team to a championship.

 

[NorthCyd]

Remember what happened after people posted this about CMC? Good times.

He remained the best coach we've ever had?

 

[VeloClone]

It's a matter of opinion, but it's a question of would you rather have the highs of LE versus the very good consistency so far of TJ.

The highs of LE are currently higher than what we've gotten, but the lows... man that was pretty low.

In my opinion culture has to count for something. I would rather our Cyclones want to play for their coaches and each other rather than being miserable. That is another reason to rank TJ over Larry.

I loved Larry ball, but Larry was an ******* to his coaches, to his players and to everyone at ISU who had to deal with him.

 

[VeloClone]

Larry inherited Fizer, Shirley, Rancik and Stevie. So I'd say to this point he's accomplished more but pissed away a fantastic opportunity.

Speaking of stupid moves. Brandon Hawkins, wasn't guaranteed he'd be "the man" so he played 2 years for a crappy San Jose team. Could of been the missing guard along with Sullivan, Power, Shirley and Rancik.

Sorry, but knowing what I know about how Larry treated people I'm not going to call someone stupid who decided Larry's abusive personality wasn't for them.

 

[VeloClone]

TJ is winning with less talented rosters than some of our past coaches. This team is talented, but not even close to the talent Hoiberg, Orr, Eustachy or Floyd had. And that is called great coaching. This team is mentally and physically tough and they play solid defense, but I don't know if there's a single player on this roster that will play in the NBA. Lipsey maybe?

24-6 with a 13-4 conference record is very impressive in what is possibly the best conference in college hoops. But it's still too early to determine where TJ ranks amongst ISU coaches. Let's see how far he takes us in the tourney.

Anyways, I'm excited to have TJ in Ames. The future is looking great.

I think Milan has the highest potential for playing some in the league of any of our current roster. The kid is still just a true freshman.

 

[deadeyededric]

Would have loved to have seen what Maury John could have done at Iowa State. He was here for just a short time due to death, but was turning the ISU program around.

At the same time, things happen for a reason. Had John not passed away when he did, Iowa State may never had been in the running for Orr.

He probably wins a few conference titles at ISU at least. A final four at Drake of all places. 55 at the time of his death so probably would have retired about 1990ish. 528-214 career coaching record.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

McDermott managed to do things that have never been replicated by any other coach in my lifetime (born in '85).

-He's the only ISU coach in my lifetime to not beat a ranked team in Hilton.
-He's the only ISU coach in my lifetime to not coach a ranked team.
-He's the only ISU coach in my lifetime to fail to win a game in the NCAA tournament.
-He's the only ISU coach in my lifetime to fail to reach the NCAA tournament.
-He's the only ISU coach in my lifetime to fail to reach any post season tournament.

Truly a ground breaker.

But they did it the right way! With hard work.

 

[Die4Cy]

McDermott managed to do things that have never been replicated by any other coach in my lifetime (born in '85).

-He's the only ISU coach in my lifetime to not beat a ranked team in Hilton.
-He's the only ISU coach in my lifetime to not coach a ranked team.
-He's the only ISU coach in my lifetime to fail to win a game in the NCAA tournament.
-He's the only ISU coach in my lifetime to fail to reach the NCAA tournament.
-He's the only ISU coach in my lifetime to fail to reach any post season tournament.

Truly a ground breaker.

And yet clearly, Mac has proven he can coach at a high level at other stops. I wonder what the dynamic was at ISU that caused him to be so spectacularly bad here. He had players.

 

[NorthCyd]

And yet clearly, Mac has proven he can coach at a high level at other stops. I wonder what the dynamic was at ISU that caused him to be so spectacularly bad here. He had players.

Bad luck combined with inexperience dealing with high level talent. He learned a lot from his failures at ISU and applied it at Creighton.

 

[IASTATE07]

Bad luck combined with inexperience dealing with high level talent. He learned a lot from his failures at ISU and applied it at Creighton.

Probably the most obvious answer that he adjusted the way he did things.