I think this would do something. Make a few guys pee themselves, a few guys get angry on the court, and a few guys walk out and never look back. I say he trys it out tomorrow or next Wednesday.
What should Coach Mac Do?
- Thread starter Clonefan32
- Start date
I think this would do something. Make a few guys pee themselves, a few guys get angry on the court, and a few guys walk out and never look back. I say he trys it out tomorrow or next Wednesday.
Mac should get back to coaching the type of ball he always has and stop trying to be a run and gun pressing team. I think he has tried to change his type of play to suit players with more talent and now he doesn't know what to do with them. There was/is nothing wrong with the slower paced, and offensive pattern offense - do what you know.
Mac wants to be a defense wins games coach, he has players that just try to outscore the opponent and give little to no effort on defense.
I would argue keeping hte ball out of Luccas hands as much as possible. Someone needs to do a turnovers per minutes played stat for Lucca. He is a bigger turnover factory than Mike Taylor.
Here's the stat you wanted. He has 0.051 TO per minute played this year and 0.069 TO per minute played last year...improvement I guess. Mike Taylor had 0.123 TO per minute played in 2006-2007.
Staiger:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36268
Taylor:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31590
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If he's being too nice that needs to end it looks like. You can still be nice but be a complete hard-*** in practice and in a game and still be liked by the players. Bill Fennelly is VERY verbally abusive sometimes but his players still love him. I'm sure guys like Bill Self, Coach K, Roy Williams, etc. are the same way. The last thing you need is to have the players think they are in charge.
I knew someone that saw a LE practice once and said everyone on the team other than Paul Shirley basically got cussed out at some point in the practice he saw. Some players couldn't handle Larry's tough ways and left and the ones that hung around played hard and disciplined and were mentally tough. I knew someone that lived down the hall from Brandon Hawkins back in the 99-00 season and he'd come back from practice and would litterally break down in tears in his room because of how hard LE was on him. He eventually transfered out because he couldn't handle all the verbal abuse LE would give him in practice.
I say if Mac has to give some tough love to some guys to light a fire under them then do it and if they aren't mentally tough to take it to heart then they can leave.
I knew someone that saw a LE practice once and said everyone on the team other than Paul Shirley basically got cussed out at some point in the practice he saw. Some players couldn't handle Larry's tough ways and left and the ones that hung around played hard and disciplined and were mentally tough. I knew someone that lived down the hall from Brandon Hawkins back in the 99-00 season and he'd come back from practice and would litterally break down in tears in his room because of how hard LE was on him. He eventually transfered out because he couldn't handle all the verbal abuse LE would give him in practice.
I say if Mac has to give some tough love to some guys to light a fire under them then do it and if they aren't mentally tough to take it to heart then they can leave.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
Maybe lock up the video games and entertainment stuff in the practice facility until they earn the privileges back as a team?
If he's being too nice that needs to end it looks like. You can still be nice but be a complete hard-*** in practice and in a game and still be liked by the players. Bill Fennelly is VERY verbally abusive sometimes but his players still love him. I'm sure guys like Bill Self, Coach K, Roy Williams, etc. are the same way. The last thing you need is to have the players think they are in charge.
I knew someone that saw a LE practice once and said everyone on the team other than Paul Shirley basically got cussed out at some point in the practice he saw. Some players couldn't handle Larry's tough ways and left and the ones that hung around played hard and disciplined and were mentally tough. I knew someone that lived down the hall from Brandon Hawkins back in the 99-00 season and he'd come back from practice and would litterally break down in tears in his room because of how hard LE was on him. He eventually transfered out because he couldn't handle all the verbal abuse LE would give him in practice.
I say if Mac has to give some tough love to some guys to light a fire under them then do it and if they aren't mentally tough to take it to heart then they can leave.
Really a tough question to answer. I wonder if Mac feels if that he is too "tough", he might have another Wes Johnson situation develop, but then on the other side of the spectrum you can't have the inmates running the asylum either. It can be a challenge to find that line in the middle.
LE's verbally abusive style was good for exactly one great season (and it was a great season) and one almost great season, and three fairly mediocre ones. For me personally, his act got old pretty quickly, especially considering the mass defections both in-season and out of season that resulted with his recruits.
Fennelly might be tough, but there is a difference between criticizing the performance of a player and making it personally abusive. From what I heard LE made it very personal and was just plain mean. In football, it sounds like that was what Mangino was doing as well.
FWIW, I know WM had the reputation of being a "player's coach", and that likely contributed to his dismissal, but I was at a WM practice once when he absolutely TORE into Stinson for not playing through the whistle. Dropped the F-bomb and everything. But again, it was based on performance (or lack thereof) in this case and not personal.
I knew someone that saw a LE practice once and said everyone on the team other than Paul Shirley basically got cussed out at some point in the practice he saw. Some players couldn't handle Larry's tough ways and left and the ones that hung around played hard and disciplined and were mentally tough. I knew someone that lived down the hall from Brandon Hawkins back in the 99-00 season and he'd come back from practice and would litterally break down in tears in his room because of how hard LE was on him. He eventually transfered out because he couldn't handle all the verbal abuse LE would give him in practice.
I say if Mac has to give some tough love to some guys to light a fire under them then do it and if they aren't mentally tough to take it to heart then they can leave.
Really a tough question to answer. I wonder if Mac feels if that he is too "tough", he might have another Wes Johnson situation develop, but then on the other side of the spectrum you can't have the inmates running the asylum either. It can be a challenge to find that line in the middle.
LE's verbally abusive style was good for exactly one great season (and it was a great season) and one almost great season, and three fairly mediocre ones. For me personally, his act got old pretty quickly, especially considering the mass defections both in-season and out of season that resulted with his recruits.
Fennelly might be tough, but there is a difference between criticizing the performance of a player and making it personally abusive. From what I heard LE made it very personal and was just plain mean. In football, it sounds like that was what Mangino was doing as well.
FWIW, I know WM had the reputation of being a "player's coach", and that likely contributed to his dismissal, but I was at a WM practice once when he absolutely TORE into Stinson for not playing through the whistle. Dropped the F-bomb and everything. But again, it was based on performance (or lack thereof) in this case and not personal.
Never has so much been said in so little words....Great Post and I agree whole heartedly....
Can U-Imagine these guys playing for Tim Floyd or Larry E?.....NFL baby which means NOT FOR LONG BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This part shocks me because there were times Stinson was playing way out of control and turning the ball over on consequtive possesions and Wayne would sit hin his chair with a blank stare and not do a thing about it while Stinson threw the game away. Stinson seemed like he could never do wrong with the way Morgan let him play. That was my biggest gripe with Morgan was he was a terrible in-game coach and let his players continue to throw winable games away by playing careless basketball. At least Mac has the sense to be vocal when we play that way and even bench a player that is making stupid plays so he can sit him down and have a talk about it. LE and Floyd were the same way, they'd call a TO the second they didn't like something or yank a guy off the floor and rip into him. I remember LE especially was not scared to make a point with Tinsley by sitting him for long stretches after he was playing out of control. Players may pout about being benched but I think it's the best way to make a point, play smart or you won't be on the floor.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
This part shocks me because there were times Stinson was playing way out of control and turning the ball over on consequtive possesions and Wayne would sit hin his chair with a blank stare and not do a thing about it while Stinson threw the game away. Stinson seemed like he could never do wrong with the way Morgan let him play. That was my biggest gripe with Morgan was he was a terrible in-game coach and let his players continue to throw winable games away by playing careless basketball. At least Mac has the sense to be vocal when we play that way and even bench a player that is making stupid plays so he can sit him down and have a talk about it. LE and Floyd were the same way, they'd call a TO the second they didn't like something or yank a guy off the floor and rip into him. I remember LE especially was not scared to make a point with Tinsley by sitting him for long stretches after he was playing out of control. Players may pout about being benched but I think it's the best way to make a point, play smart or you won't be on the floor.
And that's what I couldn't figure out about WM's third (and last) season. I thought he did a pretty good job his first two seasons and was able to push all the right buttons at the right time, and then everything fell apart in Year 3. Looking back, I have to wonder if Homan was the "glue" that held those first two teams together. Chemistry is a very tricky and delicate issue, it seems. Get it right and you can go far, get it wrong and it blows up in your face.
And that's what I couldn't figure out about WM's third (and last) season. I thought he did a pretty good job his first two seasons and was able to push all the right buttons at the right time, and then everything fell apart in Year 3. Looking back, I have to wonder if Homan was the "glue" that held those first two teams together. Chemistry is a very tricky and delicate issue, it seems. Get it right and you can go far, get it wrong and it blows up in your face.
You can't do this. If you do that you lose the respect of your team more. "Oh so now this guy needs help from the football coach." Mac has to get harder on these guy. Rip into someone he knows can take it like Brackins. Show the team he means business. He can't go out right away and rip into Colvin or something because then he thinks he is singled out. If he rips into Brackins for somethin then all of a sudden the team takes notice that he isn't playing favorites. Like I said it can't be just anyone, he has to make sure he starts withi someone that can take it. Start there and work his way down gradually. Tear down and build up. Rip them for doing something stupid, but make sure you give them attention when they do something right. I think that is the most effective way to get a team on your side. It was for me anyway. My favorite coach yelled at me more than everyone else, but he was pretty quick to give credit.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
I agree. You have to that with the right kids these days. Mac can do that with Garrett or Brackins and probably Gilstrap and Staiger to set an example but he has to make sure the team knows whats going on. A little yelling so the bench can hear doesn't hurt. He has to do it with them first but he also has to be willing to do the same for the "fragiles." If he does that with the "favorties" first, though, the "fragiles" will not be as ******.
I really hope this squad can turn it around in confernce.....I really do. And have a great "come back" season and some post season play....it could happen. But from what I have seen the past 4 years tells me that this season is going to end badly. SOmething like 17-14, 16-15 type of a record just won't do here at ISU in Year 4. And it's too bad...he's a nice guy....but just will never win here.
Thus, I would propose for him to pull a LE or Mike Leech or Fatso so we can let him go. Seriously.....would be easy to justify it......plus he sucks at coaching in the B12.
Well, not so much LE....he should have NEVER been let go.
Thus, I would propose for him to pull a LE or Mike Leech or Fatso so we can let him go. Seriously.....would be easy to justify it......plus he sucks at coaching in the B12.
Well, not so much LE....he should have NEVER been let go.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
You mean, because they find out he's treating everyone the same, even the "top" guys? Not bad.
He doesn't single anyone out. That was the key in that speech. FWIW a lot of Knights players liked him. You just can't coach like he did anymore. Parents will be all over you because you yelled at their baby.
