Playing Colvin - Mac's biggest mistake

IcSyU

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Nov 27, 2007
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I can't find it, but would love to read it.

If your saying that he did check with them, I find that equally awful.
How many team sports have you played, and why the **** did you have a dictator for a coach?

How do you build a relationship with your players if you're a dictator over them? You don't. You earn your players respect by asking for their input, and explaining why you make the decisions you make.
 

Tre4ISU

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I wonder if there's a disconnect between those of us who have played sports and those who haven't.

The team CAN suffer due to the actions of one player.

I feel the same way. Had you played team sports maybe your would understand the situation.
 

Clark

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Jun 24, 2009
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I wonder if there's a disconnect between those of us who have played sports and those who haven't.

The team CAN suffer due to the actions of one player.

Your post about teams running laps because of the actions of one player is dead on.


btw, I don't have a problem with him lifting the suspension considering I don't really know what he was suspended for in the first place.

But the "the team voted unanimously, so it's ok" argument is ridiculous on so many levels.

When I played baseball we used to run laps around the field for every error the team made. I wish we could have taken a team vote for that.

On the football team we ran windsprints if someone was late or missed practice. I wish we could have had a team vote for that.

In basketball we had to run suicides for every turnover in the previous game. I wish we could have taken a team vote for that.
 

IcSyU

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Nov 27, 2007
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Your post about teams running laps because of the actions of one player is dead on.


btw, I don't have a problem with him lifting the suspension considering I don't really know what he was suspended for in the first place.

But the "the team voted unanimously, so it's ok" argument is ridiculous on so many levels.

When I played baseball we used to run laps around the field for every error the team made. I wish we could have taken a team vote for that.

On the football team we ran windsprints if someone was late or missed practice. I wish we could have had a team vote for that.

In basketball we had to run suicides for every turnover in the previous game. I wish we could have taken a team vote for that.

None of those things even remotely compare to the eligibility of a player. None, especially a player that the team had input on what the punishment should've been. Him ******* up did punish the whole team. It's not just Colvin that's being punished, it's every player on the team.
 

RoseClone

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Oct 18, 2006
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Your post about teams running laps because of the actions of one player is dead on.


btw, I don't have a problem with him lifting the suspension considering I don't really know what he was suspended for in the first place.

But the "the team voted unanimously, so it's ok" argument is ridiculous on so many levels.

When I played baseball we used to run laps around the field for every error the team made. I wish we could have taken a team vote for that.

On the football team we ran windsprints if someone was late or missed practice. I wish we could have had a team vote for that.

In basketball we had to run suicides for every turnover in the previous game. I wish we could have taken a team vote for that.

I would like to take a vote - this post is nonsense - 1 vote for
 

nickwc

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Mar 27, 2007
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I like coach mac. This is not the year to fire him. All continuity that we have struggled to find the last 4 years will be lost as soon as we fire him. Not to mention there is still plenty of basketball to be played. a win at home on saturday will make all of you negative people to just shut up, at least until the next game is played. Mac is a good basketball coach, he hired a good recruiter in robinson with connections that he failed to hire on his staff the first time around.

I realize it shouldn't take this long to get the pieces of the puzzle in place, but now that a lot of people think we have, some of the fan base still needs to constantly rip everyone.

IMO firing coach mac after this year would hurt our program more than when we fire him and we stuggle like hell to find a good replacement.
 

Clark

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Jun 24, 2009
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None of those things even remotely compare to the eligibility of a player. None, especially a player that the team had input on what the punishment should've been. Him ******* up did punish the whole team. It's not just Colvin that's being punished, it's every player on the team.

The point is that it isn't up to the players if the kid is on the team or not. It's up to the coach. The vote is a tool for the coach to understand how his players feel, but it's still the coaches decision. Successful coaches generally allow for players to voice their opinions, but in no way does that mean that they will always do what the players want. That's my point.

Like I said, I don't have a problem with the reinstatement because I don't know enough about it.
 

RossHallHero

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Jul 8, 2009
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How many team sports have you played, and why the **** did you have a dictator for a coach?

How do you build a relationship with your players if you're a dictator over them? You don't. You earn your players respect by asking for their input, and explaining why you make the decisions you make.


HAHA!!

Yes, if there's one thing we know, it's the players love to play for Mac.

See my sig for how he explained why he was suspending Colvin and then why he wasn't.
 

RossHallHero

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What a great lesson this could've been for Mac to teach the players on the team.

You can correctly make a decision and through no fault of your own, it can end up creating a hardship for you. That doesn't mean that the decision was wrong and it certainly doesn't mean you backtrack on that decision.

Doing the right thing hurts a lot of the time, but that doesn't mean you don't do it.
 

Clark

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Jun 24, 2009
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Maybe...

But if you're shaking that finger in this direction, I'll defend myself by stating that I have yet to see Colvin's name on a court docket or police report.

GMac has shown more discipline in a breaking a team rule situation (like maybe just getting arrested in the first place), than KF has on several occassions. And done so in season as opposed to a meaningless spring ball or off season action. Say what you will about his shortening the term and if you buy whether or not it was because of extenuating circumstances. He took action in the first place.

Apples and watermelons. But we'llleave it at that.


Actually it wasn't pointed at any one person but rather an entire segment that I like to refer as the "moral superiority" segment of the ISU fanbase. I guess it counteracts the Iowa segment that Deace talks about all the time (his name for it escapes me)

Here is what I'm referring to:

People like to claim that Ferentz hands out discipline depending on who the player is. Do you think if Colvin was the worst player on the team, he'd be back right now?...or even on the team.

People like to claim that Ferentz punishes his players only for meaningless games. That can be debated, but I don't remember Ferentz publicly suspending someone for a certain amount of time, only to bring the player back early.

My final point was that had this happened at Iowa, I think we both know what the reaction on here would be to that. Do you think you would have reacted the same?


Regardless, I feel the same way about Mac as I do about Ferentz. They are both high character guys. They both seem to care deeply about their players and coaches and seem to treat people with respect.
 

Dryburn

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Apr 3, 2006
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1) GMac made a mistake at the very beginning when he stated that Colvin would not play until February. There is a very good reason that most coaches will always say indefinitely. Simply put, it gives them some wiggle room, and it puts some more pressure on the offending player, because they really don't know how long they might be out, so the behavior has to change.

2) None of the circumstances of what Colvin did, and what GMac based the original suspension on had changed. Colvin still had walked out and disrespected the coaching staff, his teammates, ISU and the fans. That was all still true.

3) Sometimes in team situations, it is necessary to punish the whole team to make your point. This has been done in sports as well as other areas of life. It is used to put peer pressure on the player or team member who screwed up, if all the other members have to take part in or pay some way with the punishment. Example.....in the military, one soldier goofs up, and the entire unit has to do push-ups. That same tactic can be, and is used with sports team. I'm sure anyone on here who ever played high school or college sports can think of an example where one of their coaches may have used it.

4) When Colvin was first suspended, that very action hurt the other members of the team. Someone was going to have to pick up his minutes, and increase their chance of injury. The possibility of running out of players in the correct position increased. So, from the very beginning, the actions taken were hurting the team.

5) There was at least one other option, if there was really that much concern about just having enough healthy bodies. You have 2 players on the bench who are red-shirted. This would not have been the first time in the history of college sports that a red-shirt has been pulled because of injuries or other circumstances.

6) Once the team got back to campus, there may have been other options available to get "bodies". There are players who practice against the women't team, and knowing BF, I would assume they have some skills. ISU has a large intramural program. I am not sure it would still be true today, but when I was in college, some of the players playing IM's were as good if not better than the players ISU had on the floor. Again, this is only about getting "bodies" to protect yourself in an emergency. Not a great situation, but you only have to protect yourself for a few games, and who knows what you might find?

7) Why is the coach letting one of his better players tell him what he has to do? Guess that tells us who is really running the team. Is GMac so grateful to CB for coming back, that he lets him run the show? Maybe that would explain the 3 point shots that CB takes at the start of each game, and how he does not play inside. Just a thought. No way should a player be telling a coach what he has to do. “When Craig Brackins looks at you and says, ‘Mac, you don’t have a choice,’ I had to play him,” McDermott said. Are you kidding me? Why did you have to play him? Seriously, most of you do not see the problem with this? Who is in charge?

8) Now that you have made the mistake of lifting the suspension for no reason, why did he have to play? Buckley was playing fairly well, and only played 19 minutes. Is that his limit? He is only in shape to play 19 minutes of a 40 minute game? Dendy only played 15. Buckley was playing a better game last night than your starting pg, even with a couple of boneheaded turnovers. Exactly why did you have to play Colvin last night coach? What did he contribute during his 10 minutes?

9) Now that you have made the mistake of playing him......why the hell was he in there at a critical time in the game? Does that show that he really was just an extra body that you let suit up to protect your bench and your other players? Seems to me like the real reason and only reason that you suited him up was because you thought you might need him to win the game, not to protect the other players, or because you were worried you might be short on the bench. That was all just cover.

This program is in serious, serious trouble, but at least I guess we know who is in charge of it now.
 
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Cyrocks

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Mar 12, 2009
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1) GMac made a mistake at the very beginning when he stated that Colvin would not play until February. There is a very good reason that most coaches will always say indefinitely. Simply put, it gives them some wiggle room, and it puts some more pressure on the offending player, because they really don't know how long they might be out, so the behavior has to change.

2) None of the circumstances of what Colvin did, and what GMac based the original suspension on had changed. Colvin still had walked out and disrespected the coaching staff, his teammates, ISU and the fans. That was all still true.

3) Sometimes in team situations, it is necessary to punish the whole team to make your point. This has been done in sports as well as other areas of life. It is used to put peer pressure on the player or team member who screwed up, if all the other members have to take part in or pay some way with the punishment. Example.....in the military, one soldier goofs up, and the entire unit has to do push-ups. That same tactic can be, and is used with sports team. I'm sure anyone on here who ever played high school or college sports can think of an example where one of their coaches may have used it.

4) When Colvin was first suspended, that very action hurt the other members of the team. Someone was going to have to pick up his minutes, and increase their chance of injury. The possibility of running out of players in the correct position increased. So, from the very beginning, the actions taken were hurting the team.

5) There was at least one other option, if there was really that much concern about just having enough healthy bodies. You have 2 players on the bench who are red-shirted. This would not have been the first time in the history of college sports that a red-shirt has been pulled because of injuries or other circumstances.

6) Once the team got back to campus, there may have been other options available to get "bodies". There are players who practice against the women't team, and knowing BF, I would assume they have some skills. ISU has a large intramural program. I am not sure it would still be true today, but when I was in college, some of the players playing IM's were as good if not better than the players ISU had on the floor. Again, this is only about getting "bodies" to protect yourself in an emergency. Not a great situation, but you only have to protect yourself for a few games, and who knows what you might find?

7) Why is the coach letting one of his better players tell him what he has to do? Guess that tells us who is really running the team. Is GMac so grateful to CB for coming back, that he lets him run the show? Maybe that would explain the 3 point shots that CB takes at the start of each game, and how he does not play inside. Just a thought. No way should a player be telling a coach what he has to do. “When Craig Brackins looks at you and says, ‘Mac, you don’t have a choice,’ I had to play him,â€￾ McDermott said. Are you kidding me? Why did you have to play him? Seriously, most of you do not see the problem with this? Who is in charge?

8) Now that you have made the mistake of lifting the suspension for no reason, why did he have to play? Buckley was playing fairly well, and only played 19 minutes. Is that his limit? He is only in shape to play 19 minutes of a 40 minute game? Dendy only played 15. Buckley was playing a better game last night than your starting pg, even with a couple of boneheaded turnovers. Exactly why did you have to play Colvin last night coach? What did he contribute during his 10 minutes?

9) Now that you have made the mistake of playing him......why the hell was he in there at a critical time in the game? Does that show that he really was just an extra body that you let suit up to protect your bench and your other players? Seems to me like the real reason and only reason that you suited him up was because you thought you might need him to win the game, not to protect the other players, or because you were worried you might be short on the bench. That was all just cover.

This program is in serious, serious trouble, but at least I guess we know who is in charge of it now.

And the award for the longest post in this thread goes to (drumroll) dryburn.
 

RossHallHero

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Great post, Dryburn!

This is a great post and makes so much sense, only the most biased could find a problem with it.
 

VeloClone

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Names on jerseys < trying to win games.

As another poster pointed out, and which I agree with, the players didn't VOTE to lift Colvin's supension. They gave input and were in favor of it.



If you re-read my email I never said anything about a vote because frankly no one really knows for sure if a vote happened. I only took the statements from Coach regarding Brackins' telling him he had to put CC in. Despite them being in the Rag - these are the closest things to facts we have in this situation.

I understand the difference in the situations, I also understand the difference in messages sent to the teams.
 

Cyrocks

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Mar 12, 2009
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Great post, Dryburn!

This is a great post and makes so much sense, only the most biased could find a problem with it.

:biglaugh: Coming from an unbiased poster, obviously.

I totally disagree with Dryburn, and you, but then, I must be biased.
 

jsb

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If you re-read my email I never said anything about a vote because frankly no one really knows for sure if a vote happened. I only took the statements from Coach regarding Brackins' telling him he had to put CC in. Despite them being in the Rag - these are the closest things to facts we have in this situation.

I understand the difference in the situations, I also understand the difference in messages sent to the teams.


Sometimes I wonder if you guys ever listen to anything. McDermott clearly said on the post-game last night that he talked to each player individually about bringing Chris back. He said they all said that he had to. He didn't say that they decided it for him.
 

hard2clone

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Dec 29, 2008
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Sometimes I wonder if you guys ever listen to anything. McDermott clearly said on the post-game last night that he talked to each player individually about bringing Chris back. He said they all said that he had to. He didn't say that they decided it for him.

There is only one person who made it so Colvin was reinstated, but it ain't Mac. You can ask him about it, but make it quick because he's skipping country in 2 days.