Let's end some myths

[cyclone3425]

Those may have been worse losses, I'll have to look at it, but the fact remains that he is eliminating those ND st, type losses. And at least the conf losses were on the road, weren't they. Just going off the top of my head, too, in that span wasn't Drake a 2 seed in the tourny one of those years. Its not in a vaccuum. But I say again, things are improving unlike then.

So I guess losing to South Dakota State is better than losing to North Dakota State?

 

[jsheep]

In my opinion, we had a decent press under Morgan, but certainly not a stellar defense. Our defense, it seems, got progressively worse each season under Morgan (while his players were getting older and not improving).

 

[mikeiastat]

"Those may have been worse losses, I'll have to look at it, but the fact remains that he is eliminating those ND st, type losses. And at least the conf losses were on the road, weren't they. Just going off the top of my head, too, in that span wasn't Drake a 2 seed in the tourny one of those years. Its not in a vaccuum. But I say again, things are improving unlike then."


What? We were 2-6 at home in conference this year.... we lost 7 games at home, the most since the 70's! I think you are confused.

Also Drake was a 5 seed that year. The other two years (when we lost to them at home) they did not make the tourney.

Dude try and keep up. I quoted him and was responding to the quote where he named losses. Responded to those losses. Not difficult to follow if you understand the quote.

The statistical support still remains that overall we have improved over last year and are making progress in the objective rankings out there, all while fixing our graduation rate issues. Unfortunately, the entire Big XII has also improved on the court, therefor our conf. record has remained the same. Against the rest of the world we have improved.

 

[aauummm]

Nope, but he did have some success. I'll bet he's sort of enjoying all of this brouhaha since he left.

The only bouhaha is in some threads on some internet message boards. I doubt that Wayne has the time or inclination to sit and go through a bunch of posts and gloat over a few persons spouting off.

 

[CloneIce]

Dude try and keep up. I quoted him and was responding to the quote where he named losses. Responded to those losses. Not difficult to follow if you understand the quote.

The statistical support still remains that overall we have improved over last year and are making progress in the objective rankings out there, all while fixing our graduation rate issues. Unfortunately, the entire Big XII has also improved on the court, therefor our conf. record has remained the same. Against the rest of the world we have improved.

That is true that we have improved a little from last season. The addition of Gilstrap alone should have brought plenty of improvement.

It is also true that we are still not as good as we were in any of Morgan's 3 seasons.... so why exactly are you arguing that he was a terrible coach?

 

[mikeiastat]

Those may have been worse losses, I'll have to look at it, but the fact remains that he is eliminating those ND st, type losses. And at least the conf losses were on the road, weren't they. Just going off the top of my head, too, in that span wasn't Drake a 2 seed in the tourny one of those years. Its not in a vaccuum. But I say again, things are improving unlike then.

So I guess losing to South Dakota State is better than losing to North Dakota State?

Not sure what you are trying to say. Yes, I think Mac lost to NDSt, but re-read my post. the point isn't that he never lost those games in the past, the point is that he's making progress and taking care of more business in the overall. as I've been showing is that those losses have been eliminated this year and thus the reason for our improvement against the rest of the world outside of the BIG XII.

Lets look at Ne

 

[jdoggivjc]

Morgan was to ISU what Alford was to Iowa. He just didn't fit, end of discussion.

Alford won the Big 10 with all Iowa starters (was it the year before he left?), and people were still calling for his head. If a good portion or majority of the fans don't like him, you can't keep him. Even with everything thing that has happened over the past four years, almost everyone still likes McDermott, even if they don't think he can coach they still like him. A poll on this website the other day proves that.

I think a big reason for that is Iowa fans lost their ability to rib ISU fans over the 2001 NCAA Tournament because they followed that Big 10 championship and #3 seed to with an absolute leg-pee to #14 Northwestern St...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Drr10nbhx1E&feature=PlayList&p=EAA6882B1D72D7DF&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=28]YouTube - Northwestern State Defeats Iowa in NCAA Tourney - Radio Call[/ame]

 

[cyclone3425]

Not sure what you are trying to say. Yes, I think Mac lost to NDSt, but re-read my post. the point isn't that he never lost those games in the past, the point is that he's making progress and taking care of more business in the overall. as I've been showing is that those losses have been eliminated this year and thus the reason for our improvement against the rest of the world outside of the BIG XII.

Lets look at Ne

He lost so SOUTH Dakota St, even worse. And yes he did beat all those crappy teams this year. And beat NO ONE, except Kstate when was when the season is all but over. You are also comparing this team to Morgan's last years team, which by the way we had a better record than this team (which you think is better). Morgan won as many conference games in his worst year as McDermott did in his best. And you might argue that its because Morgan had more talent, well whose fault is that?

I am tired of people saying that our graduation rate has gone up and so our program is better. When I watch yet another loss to average teams at home, I don't sit and tell myself, well atleast our graduation rate has gone up, I can sleep better at night.

 

[Tre4ISU]

He lost so SOUTH Dakota St, even worse. And yes he did beat all those crappy teams this year. And beat NO ONE, except Kstate when was when the season is all but over. You are also comparing this team to Morgan's last years team, which by the way we had a better record than this team (which you think is better). Morgan won as many conference games in his worst year as McDermott did in his best. And you might argue that its because Morgan had more talent, well whose fault is that?

I am tired of people saying that our graduation rate has gone up and so our program is better. When I watch yet another loss to average teams at home, I don't sit and tell myself, well atleast our graduation rate has gone up, I can sleep better at night.

Look every coach is going to have those games against teams that are not worthy. It happens. I remember a game when Tinsley and Co. probably should have lost to Morningside. Does anyone else remember that game? I believe if it weren't for TV TOs and what I thought was pretty poor officiating, Morningside probably would have won. It will happen guys, let's not argue about those games.

 

[cyclone3425]

Look every coach is going to have those games against teams that are not worthy. It happens. I remember a game when Tinsley and Co. probably should have lost to Morningside. Does anyone else remember that game? I believe if it weren't for TV TOs and what I thought was pretty poor officiating, Morningside probably would have won. It will happen guys, let's not argue about those games.

I agree. I was just backing up Morgan and stating that McDermott has lost to really bad teams too. He just doesn't have the quality wins to overcome those bad losses like the 04-05 team. Lets not forget when the 32-5 team lost to Drake. Bad loses happen.

 

[jdoggivjc]

He lost so SOUTH Dakota St, even worse. And yes he did beat all those crappy teams this year. And beat NO ONE, except Kstate when was when the season is all but over. You are also comparing this team to Morgan's last years team, which by the way we had a better record than this team (which you think is better). Morgan won as many conference games in his worst year as McDermott did in his best. And you might argue that its because Morgan had more talent, well whose fault is that?

I am tired of people saying that our graduation rate has gone up and so our program is better. When I watch yet another loss to average teams at home, I don't sit and tell myself, well atleast our graduation rate has gone up, I can sleep better at night.

And Morgan lost (in 2003-04) at San Diego St, at Colorado, at Missouri, at Nebraska, (in 2004-05) at Northern Iowa, at Xavier, at Missouri, at home to Colorado, at home to Nebraska, (in 2005-06) at home to Iona, and at home to Fresno St. Look, I'm hardly trying to defend McDermott's losses, but the overzealous Morgan defenders who want to rip every single bad loss McDermott has ever had completely ignore the fact that Morgan had his very own set of horrible losses, even in the NIT and NCAA Tourney seasons that they want to give him so much credit for.

 

[mikeiastat]

He lost so SOUTH Dakota St, even worse. And yes he did beat all those crappy teams this year. And beat NO ONE, except Kstate when was when the season is all but over. You are also comparing this team to Morgan's last years team, which by the way we had a better record than this team (which you think is better). Morgan won as many conference games in his worst year as McDermott did in his best. And you might argue that its because Morgan had more talent, well whose fault is that?

Thanks for supporting my point, reading comprehension, dude. I didn't say that this year was better than morgan's. I said that Mac is making progress. He started out lower than Morgan had to start with and has improved each of his last 3 years. The very fact that the last year under morgan was his worst, also hammers home my point. The program was headed in the wrong direction.

I am tired of people saying that our graduation rate has gone up and so our program is better. When I watch yet another loss to average teams at home, I don't sit and tell myself, well atleast our graduation rate has gone up, I can sleep better at night.

What direction do you think morgan would have continued to head in losing more and more schollies? It doesn't give me comfort BECAUSE of the graduation rate, it gives me comfort because we will no longer have to cope with losing schollies and put our program in the hole it was in for Macs first 2-3 years. Will mac get it done next year, Lord knows, but I'm pretty sure we won't be short on schollies for the next guy if he doesn't. Even if he can now take a few reaches on boarderline gade guys. We won't be losing guys completely and everything else that the NCAA was penalizing us for.

 

[VeloClone]

Look every coach is going to have those games against teams that are not worthy. It happens. I remember a game when Tinsley and Co. probably should have lost to Morningside. Does anyone else remember that game? I believe if it weren't for TV TOs and what I thought was pretty poor officiating, Morningside probably would have won. It will happen guys, let's not argue about those games.

I honestly believe that Larry would look for an opportunity for his better teams to humiliate themselves early so they would be sure to buy what he was selling. I'd heard (and yes it was probably just a rumor) that all he said during one of the timeouts during that game was, "You got yourselves into this, get yourselves out of it." then promptly walked away from the huddle.

True or not, it makes a hell of a story.

 

[Tre4ISU]

I agree. I was just backing up Morgan and stating that McDermott has lost to really bad teams too. He just doesn't have the quality wins to overcome those bad losses like the 04-05 team. Lets not forget when the 32-5 team lost to Drake. Bad loses happen.

True, I agree. We aren't winning games we should but I would rather beat Iona and lose to Kansas rather than Vice Versa. I know Mac has balanced it out but I would rather have it that way.

 

[cyclone3425]

What direction do you think morgan would have continued to head in losing more and more schollies? It doesn't give me comfort BECAUSE of the graduation rate, it gives me comfort because we will no longer have to cope with losing schollies and put our program in the hole it was in for Macs first 2-3 years. Will mac get it done next year, Lord knows, but I'm pretty sure we won't be short on schollies for the next guy if he doesn't. Even if he can now take a few reaches on boarderline gade guys. We won't be losing guys completely and everything else that the NCAA was penalizing us for.

I can almost guarantee that we would be better than 4-12 in the conference. We would have Big 12 caliber guards, and more wins against the top half of the Big 12. We will not be better next year because our 2 best players won't be here and we will get to use those "scollies" that we saved from graduation to bring in the mid-major talent we are bringing in and once again be a bottom feeder in the Big 12.

 

[Tre4ISU]

I honestly believe that Larry would look for an opportunity for his better teams to humiliate themselves early so they would be sure to buy what he was selling. I'd heard (and yes it was probably just a rumor) that all he said during one of the timeouts during that game was, "You got yourselves into this, get yourselves out of it." then promptly walked away from the huddle.

True or not, it makes a hell of a story.

Were you at that game? I was but I was relatively young and I want to know if I remember it correctly. The whole reason I was there was because two guys that had played at the local JC that were pretty damn good played for Morningside so there is a chance I could be misremembering.

Also regarding your story, those two particular players have told me the same basic story regarding a timeout.

 

[VeloClone]

I wasn't there; I only listened on the radio. I heard about the alleged TO incident after the fact.

Again, I am not purporting it to be gospel.

 

[cyclone3425]

And Morgan lost (in 2003-04) at San Diego St, at Colorado, at Missouri, at Nebraska, (in 2004-05) at Northern Iowa, at Xavier, at Missouri, at home to Colorado, at home to Nebraska, (in 2005-06) at home to Iona, and at home to Fresno St. Look, I'm hardly trying to defend McDermott's losses, but the overzealous Morgan defenders who want to rip every single bad loss McDermott has ever had completely ignore the fact that Morgan had his very own set of horrible losses, even in the NIT and NCAA Tourney seasons that they want to give him so much credit for.

When has losing on the road to Xavier become a bad loss? Iona made the NCAA tourny that year. And if you read all the posts, I was only defending Morgan when people were saying he lost to all these bad teams and wasnt consistant. Proving the fact that McDermott isn't consistent either, but Morgan won WAY more big games and brought in WAY more Big 12 talent.

 

[Tre4ISU]

I wasn't there; I only listened on the radio. I heard about the alleged TO incident after the fact.

Again, I am not purporting it to be gospel.

It would not suprise me if it were true. If I remember correctly Tinsley was getting shut down by a 5'4 white guy. That kid played at ILCC and is probably inch for inch the best player I have seen in person.

 

[cyclone3425]

True, I agree. We aren't winning games we should but I would rather beat Iona and lose to Kansas rather than Vice Versa. I know Mac has balanced it out but I would rather have it that way.

How has he balanced it out? We are 4-12 in the conference. We r 11th in the conference. How is this balancing out?