Kansas up 1 at haltime at Texas Tech

[twocoach]

Since you asked 2010, 2007, 2006, and 2005 all would be considered vastly underachieved. I'm not going through more. But I'm sure there's more. It would make more sense for a Jayhawk fan to breakdown objectively their performance against their seeding as I'm only so familiar with Jahawk history, but If you disagree, show me where I"m wrong. They have vastly underperformed much much more than they have exceeded.

I gave you a break down of ISU's as I'm more familiar with their vast under ratings, I also knew where to look for cyclone rankings comparisons. If you are half the fan your rantings let you think you are you should be able to come up with a similar analysis. If you don't like my categories of vast, considerable and plain under/over achieve. Just tell me if they went out one two or 3 rounds before their seed should suggest.

If you do I'm fairly sure what you will find. If you don't I'll assume you didn't like what you find. As it is for my sample size we'll say you are over-rated about 2x as often as you are under-rated. I'll wait. Thanks in advance.

"I gave you a break down of ISU's as I'm more familiar with their vast under ratings, I also knew where to look for cyclone rankings comparisons."

Yeah it was tough looking up that little chart on the ISU mens basketball wiki page that has every appearance in their history charted out. It doesn't take much to chart out 14 wins. Iowa State has played a grand total of 5 NCAA tourney games in their 108 year history where they were the higher seeded team in the game and lost one of them, which was as a #2 seed to a #15. Were you aware that is the largest upset in the history of the NCAA tourney (since tied twice)?

 

[mikeiastat]

Ding ding, we have a winner.

You do have control over not being ashamed of your grandpa acting like a doosh. I wouldn't brag about my grampa acting like a child. That you had control over.

 

[twocoach]

When they were consistently underachieving as a pattern, then I say that those years they did not deserve those seeds. what aren't you getting.

You aren't going to be that guy that says that every team that is upset in the tourney was overranked or overseeded are you? Ugh...

 

[mikeiastat]

"I gave you a break down of ISU's as I'm more familiar with their vast under ratings, I also knew where to look for cyclone rankings comparisons."

Yeah it was tough looking up that little chart on the ISU mens basketball wiki page that has every appearance in their history charted out. It doesn't take much to chart out 14 wins. Iowa State has played a grand total of 5 NCAA tourney games in their 108 year history where they were the higher seeded team in the game and lost one of them, which was as a #2 seed to a #15. Were you aware that is the largest upset in the history of the NCAA tourney (since tied twice)?

Again take just one stat class and realize what an outlier is. Show me a pattern. There is a 16 season data sample that any reasonable person could see shows the exact opposite of that with one outlier. Please, Prove me wrong on the Self era of basketball. Do you understand math and statistics at all?

Show me data that says on average KU isn't over-rated. Sit at the big boy table and reasonably explain your belief that the data doesn't at least support KU being on average OVERRATED. I'm done if you two are too dumb to discuss this with real facts.

 

[twocoach]

You do have control over not being ashamed of your grandpa acting like a doosh. I wouldn't brag about my grampa acting like a child. That you had control over.

Good grief. A randomly funny memory about a harmless college rivalry between two old men has turned into THIS? I get that you want to trash me and make me look like a jerk but it's kind of backfiring at this point. This is getting to be like Trump going nuts over Obama's birth certificate, totally pointless and overreactive over nothing.

 

[mikeiastat]

You aren't going to be that guy that says that every team that is upset in the tourney was overranked or overseeded are you? Ugh...

No I'm going to be the guy that says when its a longstanding pattern, it begins to have some merit.

 

[twocoach]

Again take just one stat class and realize what an outlier is. Show me a pattern. There is a 16 season data sample that any reasonable person could see shows the exact opposite of that. Please, Prove me wrong on the Self era of basketball. Do you understand math and statistics at all?

Yes, I do. Stats show me that in the Bill Self era no team in the nation has won more ncaa tournament games than Kansas. NONE. Have they dropped a few bummers along the way? Yes, obviously, but I still like our shot with a coach that makes the Elite Eight every other year on average. You can look at the 40% that ended as a bummer; I'll look at the 50% that ended well and the stats will support each of our arguments.

 

[mikeiastat]

Please then provide examples of KU being seeded higher than where they should have been.

Not putting too much work into it 2013 easily fits this bill. didn't do much out of conf and lost to multiple non tourney teams. Should have lost to ISU at least once. and bowed out early as was easily predictable. when you were given games again that year. Protected and over-rated = not so successful in the NCAA early exit. because you were bailed out by the refs in conf and weren't toughened by dealing with the rightful adversity.

 

[twocoach]

No I'm going to be the guy that says when its a longstanding pattern, it begins to have some merit.

Bottom line, it makes no difference. How teams did two years or five years or ten years ago means nothing going into this tourney. Either KU's young players will come out aggressive and play to their talent level and win or they will come out tentative and play to their experience level and lose. It's already been a fun year with lots more to come. I hope they are able to keep it rolling and play well. No point fussing with you about it. We'll see soon enough.

 

[trajanJ]

No I'm going to be the guy that says when its a longstanding pattern, it begins to have some merit.

You do realize just 2 years ago KU was a 2 seed and went to the NC game, and a couple years before that they won the only NCAA tournament that had all 4 #1 seeds in the Final Four?

You are either trying really hard to get under a KU fans skin or you know absolutely nothing about basketball and the NCAA tournament. The higher you're seeded the less likely you will achieve that seed. That's parity and the way the tournament works. How many 1 seeds made it to the Final Four last year? As a Cyclone fan you should know. The highest seed you've had the last 20 years is a 2 seed and you've had it twice. One time you played exactly to your seed the very next year you lost 1st round, something KU has never done as a 1 or 2 seed even though they've had that seed at least 10x in the last 20 years. So you could make a case that ISU had a year they underachieved in the tourney worse than any KU team ever. See how stupid this whole argument is?

 

[mikeiastat]

Yes, I do. Stats show me that in the Bill Self era no team in the nation has won more ncaa tournament games than Kansas. NONE. Have they dropped a few bummers along the way? Yes, obviously, but I still like our shot with a coach that makes the Elite Eight every other year on average. You can look at the 40% that ended as a bummer; I'll look at the 50% that ended well and the stats will support each of our arguments.

This is a fine accomplishment, but does nothing to refute the over-rated discussion. Let me know when you are done deflecting from the topic at hand.

 

[mikeiastat]

You do realize just 2 years ago KU was a 2 seed and went to the NC game, and a couple years before that they won the only NCAA tournament that had all 4 #1 seeds in the Final Four?

You are either trying really hard to get under a KU fans skin or you know absolutely nothing about basketball and the NCAA tournament. The higher you're seeded the less likely you will achieve that seed. That's parity and the way the tournament works. How many 1 seeds made it to the Final Four last year? As a Cyclone fan you should know. The highest seed you've had the last 20 years is a 2 seed and you've had it twice. One time you played exactly to your seed the very next year you lost 1st round, something KU has never done as a 1 or 2 seed even though they've had that seed at least 10x in the last 20 years. So you could make a case that ISU had a year they underachieved in the tourney worse than any KU team ever. See how stupid this whole argument is?

Yes I do and those were discussed. Now look at the over all trend and again take a class that will help you understand trends, averages and Outliers. I'm not trying to do anything but give you the facts. On average for the Last 10 years KU has left early on average. And on average ISU outperforms their seed. Yes there were 2 KU years and 1 ISU year that this wasn't the case.

Now look at the big picture. And tell me where I'm wrong? For **** sake do they not teach you basic mathmatical and statistical concepts in all of kansas? And no it shouldn't be harder to play to your seed you get to play a 16 seed and an 8 seed and a four seed. You are supposed to win those games. ISU has failed to win 1 game they were expected to win. and has won about 6 they weren't supposed to.

Now go back to deflecting the facts and circle jerk with your chest thumping again while ignoring the facts put before you.

 

[mattyice]

This is a fine accomplishment, but does nothing to refute the over-rated discussion. Let me know when you are done deflecting from the topic at hand.

Wow...is someone really breaking out stat 101 trying to claim KU is overrated?

if THEY are overrated.....I'll take that label any day.

 

[trajanJ]

Yes I do and those were discussed. Now look at the over all trend and again take a class that will help you understand trends, averages and Outliers. I'm not trying to do anything but give you the facts. On average for the Last 10 years KU has left early on average. Yes there were 2 years that they didn't Now look at the big picture. And tell me where I'm wrong? For **** sake do they not teach you basic mathmatical and statistical concepts in all of kansas?

That's going to be the fact for every single top ranked team so I guess if it makes you feel better, yes you are correct KU, KY, Duke, UNC, Syracuse are all overrated because they can't achieve their seed every year. By using that same measurement ISU has been overrated on average when they go to the tournament. The only teams you will find that aren't are lower seeded teams that had success and didn't go very often. So what exactly is your point?

 

[mikeiastat]

That's going to be the fact for every single top ranked team so I guess if it makes you feel better, yes you are correct KU, KY, Duke, UNC, Syracuse are all overrated because they can't achieve their seed every year. By using that same measurement ISU has been overrated on average when they go to the tournament. The only teams you will find that aren't are lower seeded teams that had success and didn't go very often. So what exactly is your point?

Please follow along if you are going to spout off at least have a clue on the facts, no ISU has under achieved exactly once according to seed. They have surpassed their seed 5 times and have won while being the underdog more than that. They have lost 1 NCAA tourney game they weren't supposed to. Yet another KU that doesn't understand the premise this conversation revolves around. Shock

And yes we all understand that ISU should and would love to be in KU's shoes, but only one side is ignoring the fact KU has one trend to under performing and over rated and ISU has the complete opposite.

 

[mattyice]

Please follow along if you are going to spout off at least have a clue on the facts, no ISU has under achieved exactly once according to seed. They have surpassed their seed 5 times and have won while being the underdog more than that. They have lost 1 NCAA tourney game they weren't supposed to. Yet another KU that doesn't understand the premise this conversation revolves around. Shock

this is so idiotic. Yes way to go...our limited appearances resulted in far fewer losses related to seed....while KU has many more. But...KU also goes every year so it's bound to happen more.

 

[mattyice]

That's 42-15 KU appearances to ISU

and way to leave out that of our 15 appearances....12 of them are 0-1 or 1 win appearances then a loss. Most of them we eeked in as a low seed and lost, or won an 8/9, 7/10 type matchup. So lets not go overboard on how well we play to our seed.

 

[mikeiastat]

That's 42-15 KU appearances to ISU

and way to leave out that of our 15 appearances....12 of them are 0-1 or 1 win appearances then a loss. Most of them we eeked in as a low seed and lost, or won an 8/9, 7/10 type matchup. So lets not go overboard on how well we play to our seed.

No arguement that their history is much more accomplished than ISU thats a different discussion entirely. However over achieves/underachieves ISU is 5 or 6 to 1. KU over the decade or so goes the other direction at a more than 2 to 1 clip. It is a simple premise, if you want to discuss your theory I likely won't disagree, but I'm stating facts they ignore.

The information you state is neither a surprise to anyone nor pertinent to the discussion. They are neither under performs or over performs. ISU did exactly what was expected of them.

 

[CycloneErik]

No arguement that their history is much more accomplished than ISU thats a different discussion entirely. However over achieves/underachieves ISU is 5 or 6 to 1. KU over the decade or so goes the other direction at a more than 2 to 1 clip. It is a simple premise, if you want to discuss your theory I likely won't disagree, but I'm stating facts they ignore.

The information you state is neither a surprise to anyone nor pertinent to the discussion. They are neither under performs or over performs. ISU did exactly what was expected of them.

So the argument is that Kansas has underperformed, proven by the idea that ISU has been expected to do little?

 

[trajanJ]

Please follow along if you are going to spout off at least have a clue on the facts, no ISU has under achieved exactly once according to seed. They have surpassed their seed 5 times and have won while being the underdog more than that. They have lost 1 NCAA tourney game they weren't supposed to. Yet another KU that doesn't understand the premise this conversation revolves around. Shock

And yes we all understand that ISU should and would love to be in KU's shoes, but only one side is ignoring the fact KU has one trend to under performing and over rated and ISU has the complete opposite.

I'm not talking about winning an 8-9 matchup. I'm saying that it's impossible to live up to high seeds on a consistent basis and you can look at ISU for that. ISU has been a high seed twice, one of those times they played to their seed, another they lost to a 15 as a 2. Since you're the expert and obviously smarter than anybody that's ever posted on this board, please name the teams that lived up to their high seeds. Remember if you're a 1 you can't surpass that seed, so you have to make the Final Four every single time or you will, on average under achieve.