2/16/15 AP Poll Ranking?

[Rhoadhoused]

So a thread that is nominally about where the Cyclones will be ranked has turned into a thread talking about UNI...looks like the Panthers are the newest "big brother" for a few of you.

Anyway, I don't think we go below #15.

Whatever you need to do to feel important. It's sports and there are only two relevant basketball teams in the state.

One is moving up the rankings playing horrible, horrible competition. The other is playing tough opponents and treading water in the rankings. (probably)

People will talk about that.

 

[Rhoadhoused]

I like the graphic and you make good points. The problem I have is when people say Gonzaga/Utah should be a one or two seed but UNI shouldn't sniff a 5 seed. UNI has the resume of a 3-5 seed right now, with the potential to get up to a 2 seed if they win out and some other teams ahead of them slip up.

I don't think many would say they can't sniff a 5 seed. I think a lot of people are reasonably skeptical that they should be a 3 seed type team (like their ranking would suggest if they hit 11th) but I think everything will work itself out come Selection Sunday.

As far as Gonzaga, they are unblemished vs an actually pretty decent schedule. Their only loss is Arizona. I am skeptical of how good they are but they certainly deserve a 2 seed in my opinion. I'm not a fan of putting them on the 1 seed line.

Utah plays a considerably tougher schedule than either of those teams but has a couple more losses than Gonzaga and a lot more quality wins than UNI.

Kenpom overall SOS:

ISU- 30
UNI- 144
Gonzaga- 81
Utah- 62

You can see where there is a major difference there.


EDIT:

Iowa is also in the top 50. And Wichita State is top 25. Just because they played Wichita in the conference season doesn't mean it's less of an accomplishment. UNI will probably have played a tougher schedule by the time the season ends, so your point makes no sense. Zags have played five good teams, only two of which are top 25 worthy. UNI has played two top 25 teams and one 26-50, likely to play two more games vs top 25 before the NCAA tournament. Zags schedule is not an advantage. There is certainly no reason why a 32-1 Zags team should be five seeds ahead of a 31-2 UNI team.

You are extremely far off on your SOSs using the eye test. Gonzaga and Utah both play much much more difficult schedules than UNI.

And Gonzaga's only loss is @ #3 Arizona, which is insanely tough. UNI's are obviously to Evansville and an ok VCU. Those records are not created equally whatsoever.

 

[ISUChippewa]

Whatever you need to do to feel important. It's sports and there are only two relevant basketball teams in the state.

One is moving up the rankings playing horrible, horrible competition. The other is playing tough opponents and treading water in the rankings. (probably)

People will talk about that.

Um, okay?

I actually don't need to come to CycloneFanatic.com to feel important, so if you're in a pissy mood and intending that as a personal attack you're really far off base. I just find it bemusing and a bit sad that at the very least a vocal minority of Cyclone fans turn a thread about ISU's ranking into an attack on UNI.

 

[AMarner32]

I don't think many would say they can't sniff a 5 seed. I think a lot of people are reasonably skeptical that they should be a 3 seed type team (like their ranking would suggest if they hit 11th) but I think everything will work itself out come Selection Sunday.

As far as Gonzaga, they are unblemished vs an actually pretty decent schedule. Their only loss is Arizona. I am skeptical of how good they are but they certainly deserve a 2 seed in my opinion. I'm not a fan of putting them on the 1 seed line.

Utah plays a considerably tougher schedule than either of those teams but has a couple more losses than Gonzaga and a lot more quality wins than UNI.

Kenpom overall SOS:

ISU- 30
UNI- 144
Gonzaga- 81
Utah- 62

You can see where there is a major difference there.


EDIT:




You are extremely far off on your SOSs using the eye test. Gonzaga and Utah both play much much more difficult schedules than UNI.

And Gonzaga's only loss is @ #3 Arizona, which is insanely tough. UNI's are obviously to Evansville and an ok VCU. Those records are not created equally whatsoever.

There have been at least two posts just in this thread of people saying UNI should not even be a five seed. I was referring to that. And I'm fully aware of the current SOS for Gonzaga. It's going to go down every game they play from here on out. UNI will likely play two more ranked opponents. I would bet UNI will wind up around 100-125, and Gonzaga will be between 85-100. I don't have the actual numbers but I know Gonzaga's SOS was far better back in early January. I would assume UNI's was about the same as it is now. In the end the SOS's won't be as far off as they seemed. UNI still has one or two games against ranked teams, one being guaranteed on the road. That will go a long way.

 

[Rhoadhoused]

Um, okay?

I actually don't need to come to CycloneFanatic.com to feel important, so if you're in a pissy mood and intending that as a personal attack you're really far off base. I just find it bemusing and a bit sad that at the very least a vocal minority of Cyclone fans turn a thread about ISU's ranking into an attack on UNI.

I'm just saying half of these threads are you in there whining about ISU fans talking about UNI. Go to your own UNI message board if that bothers you.

Like I said, ISU fans aren't going to feel bad about talking about the 2nd most relevant team in this market.

Obviously fans want their team ranked higher than the other team that is near them, especially when the other team has played a powderpuff schedule.

So why don't you agree, disagree and provide evidence, or say something constructive instead of coming into these threads on your high horse about how ISU fans are little brother to UNI?

 

[HFCS]

We should be in front of both MVC teams, we have like 7 more wins vs top 50 RPI teams than either of them.

Does UNI even have 2 now that Iowa isn't top 50? WSU has that great win against #47 Tulsa to cling to.

 

[bigdaddykane]

Who cares where uni is in the rankings or which seed they'll be. They wont get passed the 2nd round in the tournament.

 

[ISUChippewa]

I'm just saying half of these threads are you in there whining about ISU fans talking about UNI. Go to your own UNI message board if that bothers you.

Like I said, ISU fans aren't going to feel bad about talking about the 2nd most relevant team in this market.

Obviously fans want their team ranked higher than the other team that is near them, especially when the other team has played a powderpuff schedule.

So why don't you agree, disagree and provide evidence, or say something constructive instead of coming into these threads on your high horse about how ISU fans are little brother to UNI?

I did write in my first post in this thread, at the bottom, that I expect ISU to be ranked #15 tomorrow. I don't think we'll fall too far, and we shouldn't.

You probably didn't notice that in the middle of throwing your childlike, petulant fit.

 

[Rhoadhoused]

There have been at least two posts just in this thread of people saying UNI should not even be a five seed. I was referring to that. And I'm fully aware of the current SOS for Gonzaga. It's going to go down every game they play from here on out. UNI will likely play two more ranked opponents. I would bet UNI will wind up around 100-125, and Gonzaga will be between 85-100. I don't have the actual numbers but I know Gonzaga's SOS was far better back in early January. I would assume UNI's was about the same as it is now. In the end the SOS's won't be as far off as they seemed. UNI still has one or two games against ranked teams, one being guaranteed on the road. That will go a long way.

Actually that is not the case.
(all numbers are Kenpom)
UNI plays:

@154. 262, 132, @13

Avg: 140.25

Gonzaga plays:

@260, @65, 108, 32

Avg: 116.25

Obviously they will both play some creampuffs in their tournies if they win, but UNI will have the advantage post season alone should they both make it to the championship game and WSU does as well. Of course those games don't do a ton of good unless UNI wins. If that works out the two schedules might even out.

 

[HFCS]

I did write in my first post in this thread, at the bottom, that I expect ISU to be ranked #15 tomorrow. I don't think we'll fall too far, and we shouldn't.

You probably didn't notice that in the middle of throwing your childlike, petulant fit.

Oklahoma looked pretty good vs ISU...yet ISU has a better record, better conference record, better rpi and OU still has to play in Ames.

We are a good basketball team playing a schedule that is going to end up top 10. Our SOS moves up about 5 spots every week and it's closing in at top ten range.

 

[Rhoadhoused]

I did write in my first post in this thread, at the bottom, that I expect ISU to be ranked #15 tomorrow. I don't think we'll fall too far, and we shouldn't.

You probably didn't notice that in the middle of throwing your childlike, petulant fit.

Why would that be in any way relevant?

And what is so childlike and petulant about pointing out your high number of posts belittling ISU fans for talking about UNI? Why is talking about UNI so bad? For the 3rd time, there are two relevant basketball teams in Iowa right now and UNI is ranked higher and has a lot less quality wins and a softer schedule. That's going to come up, like it or not.

I'll gladly shut up if you can find some kind of solid evidence for why UNI should be ranked, seeded, favored, ect over ISU. It would be the first time I ever saw you actually try instead of just pointing at those who actually do provide some analysis in favor of ISU.

 

[CoKane]

So baylor and ou who had worse losses are going to make up 200 plus points and jump us? No... we are 30 points back from UNC and they lost to a worse team on the road and had no win. We are at worst staying put at best up to 12.

Just be happy he didn't start trying to argue that we would drop out.

 

[HoibergIsMyHero]

Who cares if Kansas plays at Wichita? It was unique to our state for the 4 in-state teams to play each other home or away. It would help our SOS more often than it would hurt it.

I could care less how "unique" it is. I want Iowa State to do well. It does no good to play a team made up of amped up Iowa kids in a 5,000 person gym when our SOS is fine as it is. Give me more P5 games.

 

[iastatehunter]

if is means anything.. I think UNI would be 15-9 if they had our schedule.

 

[ISU42]

Why is it the same few posters that are getting their feelings hurt when UNI is talked about?

 

[Rhoadhoused]

I could care less how "unique" it is. I want Iowa State to do well. It does no good to play a team made up of amped up Iowa kids in a 5,000 person gym when our SOS is fine as it is. Give me more P5 games.

I think Hoiberg obviously has his sights set higher, and has had a hard time finding suitors to come to Hilton.

And UNI isn't this type of a team every year. ISU can get home games vs UNI's usual spot in the 80 to 100 range in the country. And they get to keep their game vs UNI at a nuetral court every other.

Also, it keeps Drake and their really horrible RPI off of our schedule every other year.

 

[ISUChippewa]

Why would that be in any way relevant?

And what is so childlike and petulant about pointing out your high number of posts belittling ISU fans for talking about UNI? Why is talking about UNI so bad? For the 3rd time, there are two relevant basketball teams in Iowa right now and UNI is ranked higher and has a lot less quality wins and a softer schedule. That's going to come up, like it or not.

I'll gladly shut up if you can find some kind of solid evidence for why UNI should be ranked, seeded, favored, ect over ISU. It would be the first time I ever saw you actually try instead of just pointing at those who actually do provide some analysis in favor of ISU.

Oh my God. Since you seem to be obsessed lately with what I've posted about UNI vs. ISU I challenge to find one single post where I've challenged any ISU fan about why UNI should be ranked above ISU or vice versa. Pretty much every single post I've written has poked a bit of fun about the insecurity, as I see it, of Iowa State fans who are getting all worked up over UNI being ranked higher in the polls. I did write once that if ISU had beaten Texas Tech on the road, like we should have, that UNI being ranked higher likely wouldn't be an issue. I do think that loss is worse than either UNI losing at VCU or even Evansville. The Evansville loss happened a month and a half ago, wherein the loss in Lubbock was about three weeks ago or so. Whether that's fair or not, the timing of good wins and bad losses plays a part in the voters' minds about which teams to rank where. If UNI loses between now and their game at WSU and Iowa State wins the games they're supposed to and even steals a road win or two, I completely expect ISU to jump ahead of UNI, and rightfully so.

To carry it one step further, since you asked about being favored, etc., if ISU and UNI were to play this season, if the game were played in Cedar Falls I think UNI would win in single digits, if in Ames ISU would win by between 9-12 points, and it would be anyone's ball game on a neutral court.

Does that help?

 

[ISUChippewa]

Why is it the same few posters that are getting their feelings hurt when UNI is talked about?

It honestly doesn't hurt my feelings at all, but UNI's success this season, and how it's reflected in the polls, certainly does seem to get some posters worked up around here.

 

[HoibergIsMyHero]

I think Hoiberg obviously has his sights set higher, and has had a hard time finding suitors to come to Hilton.

And UNI isn't this type of a team every year. ISU can get home games vs UNI's usual spot in the 80 to 100 range in the country. And they get to keep their game vs UNI at a nuetral court every other.

Also, it keeps Drake and their really horrible RPI off of our schedule every other year.

Totally agree. Seems like some here like to live in the past. I think Fred will start to be able to schedule easier as our sustained success means greater national attention and teams won't see a loss to us as a bad thing.

 

[HoibergIsMyHero]

Oh my God. Since you seem to be obsessed lately with what I've posted about UNI vs. ISU I challenge to find one single post where I've challenged any ISU fan about why UNI should be ranked above ISU or vice versa. Pretty much every single post I've written has poked a bit of fun about the insecurity, as I see it, of Iowa State fans who are getting all worked up over UNI being ranked higher in the polls. I did write once that if ISU had beaten Texas Tech on the road, like we should have, that UNI being ranked higher likely wouldn't be an issue. I do think that loss is worse than either UNI losing at VCU or even Evansville. The Evansville loss happened a month and a half ago, wherein the loss in Lubbock was about three weeks ago or so. Whether that's fair or not, the timing of good wins and bad losses plays a part in the voters' minds about which teams to rank where. If UNI loses between now and their game at WSU and Iowa State wins the games they're supposed to and even steals a road win or two, I completely expect ISU to jump ahead of UNI, and rightfully so.

To carry it one step further, since you asked about being favored, etc., if ISU and UNI were to play this season, if the game were played in Cedar Falls I think UNI would win in single digits, if in Ames ISU would win by between 9-12 points, and it would be anyone's ball game on a neutral court.

Does that help?

This is the only fact you seem to bring up. Show me their top 50 wins, their top 50 road wins, their better SOS, their better RPI, etc.