REFUTED: Travis Hines: A look into the ISU BBall program and the Athletic Dept

[Clonefan94]

"Local circles who are sympathetic to ISU" is exactly where the Ames Tribune has it's circulation. It is a small time, small town newspaper. The paper's "local circle" includes local advertisers as well as a huge number of Iowa State fans, employees, and businesses that depend on ISU. Do you think that Hines' article is going to sit well with them, especially since it's been proven false?

Has he been fired yet?

I still don't think he will be fired because he'll stick to his sources and stand by his article.

It hasn't been proven False, it's been proven to be poorly written and misleading.

As I said earlier, very few places care about journalistic integrity anymore. That's all out the window to cash flow. This article generated a lot of hits, probably more nationally than locally in Ames. That's something they can now show to advertisers to get more money per ad.

I don't know completely the ins and outs of the Newspaper business, but if other news outlets picked up and ran this story, I'd imagine they'd have to pay for it as well.

In the end, the people that regularly read the newspaper as a newspaper, probably didn't even know of the outrage that happened on the internet. So I doubt their actual printed readership goes down that much because of this one article.

 

[bosco]

What I don't get out of the whole article is that even at face value (not taking into consideration what has been deemed false) is that it really seems to be thrown out there without a real clear message or agenda (by Travis, clearly the sources had an agenda). Most of the time with these types of articles, the message is carried throughout and you feel like you can understand what the writer is trying to convey, here it just floats out there like a wiffle ball against a stiff breeze.

On the same note, I'm still amazed at how it supposedly took 4-5 months to write this, there just isn't any meat or factual digging that could have been done. I can pick up the phone or send emails and reach "nearly a dozen sources" in a matter of hours, so at most I could see this taking a week since there was clearly no other research to backup the stated rumors. It just goes against logic to think that he would have been waiting on any FOI or data points to come back since none were used in the article or for backing the alleged rumors.

Just seems so incredibly odd both of Travis and the Tribune.

The tone of the fanbase after the article came out was close to a lynch mob for JP's neck. When Fred came out and casually swatted it away like a fly the fanbase's tone did a complete 180 and turned on TH. If Fred did not do that I think we are having a completely different discussion. Maybe Hines or the Tribune didn't expect Fred to do that.

 

[carvers4math]

I think the part about assistant coaches having to pay for tickets has been proven false and a great deal of the rest has been shown to be sensationalized for whatever purpose.

 

[Leidang]

So after the article, the interviews, and the massive threads here is a summary of what I have learned.
1. Tired people don't like hotel checkout rules, even in Hawaii
2. People would rather have their travel paid for by someone else rather than pay for it themselves
3. Paying taxes sucks, even on Cyclone Tickets
4. When coaches salaries go up fans have to pay for it, but we shouldn't talk about that, it's mean to the coaches
5. "Near Double Digits" could mean anything from 1 to 11???
6. Everyone has an opinion
7. Some people really don't like Pollard
8. Some people really don't like Hines
9. Everybody likes Fred
10. Pollard is so self-serving he will lie about anything
11. Hines is so self-serving he will lie about anything
12. Fred is such a nice guy he will lie about anything
13. We better beat Kansas this weekend

 

[isufbcurt]

So after the article, the interviews, and the massive threads here is a summary of what I have learned.
1. Tired people don't like hotel checkout rules, even in Hawaii
2. People would rather have their travel paid for by someone else rather than pay for it themselves
3. Paying taxes sucks, even on Cyclone Tickets
4. When coaches salaries go up fans have to pay for it, but we shouldn't talk about that, it's mean to the coaches
5. "Near Double Digits" could mean anything from 1 to 11???
6. Everyone has an opinion
7. Some people really don't like Pollard
8. Some people really don't like Hines
9. Everybody likes Fred
10. Pollard is so self-serving he will lie about anything
11. Hines is so self-serving he will lie about anything
12. Fred is such a nice guy he will lie about anything
13. We better beat Kansas this weekend

Nailed it. No need for message boards anymore.

 

[IAStubborn]

I think the part about assistant coaches having to pay for tickets has been proven false and a great deal of the rest has been shown to be sensationalized for whatever purpose.

So in 2013 an assistant coach paid zero for 2 tickets and in 2014 had $300-600 (guessing) withdrawn from his check. I don't doubt someone like Matt Abdelmassih thought he was being charged for the tickets because he didn't read the department wide email on new IRS rules. But agree, this should have been fact checked by Hines. I am guessing he assumed nobody would lie about that. But as we see here lieing and being wrong are two very different things but both end up with the same product.

 

[clone52]

What I don't get out of the whole article is that even at face value (not taking into consideration what has been deemed false) is that it really seems to be thrown out there without a real clear message or agenda (by Travis, clearly the sources had an agenda). Most of the time with these types of articles, the message is carried throughout and you feel like you can understand what the writer is trying to convey, here it just floats out there like a wiffle ball against a stiff breeze.

On the same note, I'm still amazed at how it supposedly took 4-5 months to write this, there just isn't any meat or factual digging that could have been done. I can pick up the phone or send emails and reach "nearly a dozen sources" in a matter of hours, so at most I could see this taking a week since there was clearly no other research to backup the stated rumors. It just goes against logic to think that he would have been waiting on any FOI or data points to come back since none were used in the article or for backing the alleged rumors.

Just seems so incredibly odd both of Travis and the Tribune.

Who Iowa State paid for to go to San Antonio was determined based on the FOI act. That was probably the delay. Without that, everything is speculation.

 

[zmanzbo]

The 4-5 month time to write it blows my mind as well.

 

[thatguy]

you boners still talking about this?

 

[cycloneworld]

What I don't get out of the whole article is that even at face value (not taking into consideration what has been deemed false) is that it really seems to be thrown out there without a real clear message or agenda (by Travis, clearly the sources had an agenda). Most of the time with these types of articles, the message is carried throughout and you feel like you can understand what the writer is trying to convey, here it just floats out there like a wiffle ball against a stiff breeze.

On the same note, I'm still amazed at how it supposedly took 4-5 months to write this, there just isn't any meat or factual digging that could have been done. I can pick up the phone or send emails and reach "nearly a dozen sources" in a matter of hours, so at most I could see this taking a week since there was clearly no other research to backup the stated rumors. It just goes against logic to think that he would have been waiting on any FOI or data points to come back since none were used in the article or for backing the alleged rumors.

Just seems so incredibly odd both of Travis and the Tribune.

Exactly. Add in that he didn't contact Pollard until 2 days before it was set to be published. That reeks of being a hit piece.

I wonder if he got wind of a possible story awhile ago and got so deep into that the Tribute (or maybe even him) figured "well we've spent all of this time and effort, better put SOMETHING out there".

It just makes no sense that the key 2-3 examples in the article weren't fact checked when doing so was so easy to do...

 

[Judoka]

The tone of the fanbase after the article came out was close to a lynch mob for JP's neck. When Fred came out and casually swatted it away like a fly the fanbase's tone did a complete 180 and turned on TH. If Fred did not do that I think we are having a completely different discussion. Maybe Hines or the Tribune didn't expect Fred to do that.

I disagree with you there - in fact I wouldn't expect Fred to actually admit it if there was any friction between him and Pollard or if that played any part in his leaving. The tone changed pretty quick once people had a few minutes to digest the article and once Pollard went on and directly cut down the main allegations (hotel room, flights for families, and tickets for assistants) the damage was done. Fred's comments certainly helped but they were just the icing on top. The story was already dead in the water before he went on.

 

[Gossamer]

How could he not be? His story that he's worked on for 4-5 months has just been discredited in a matter of hours if not days. Do you not think that there is not going to be ramifications for that? He's lost credibility, that hurts the Ames Tribune. That hurts advertising revenue, lost $. Do you suppose that he'll get a huge raise, a promotion and an office with a window for doing that?

It's more than Hines "simply wrote a piece". He was told directly by The Mayor that the story was untrue and not to publish it. The Mayor further warned him that he would come out publicly and disavow the story. Hines kicked sand in the face of The Mayor and told him that he was going ahead with the story.

Common sense tells me that going up against The Mayor (especially in the hometown of The Mayor) is not a wise thing to do and that you better back off and do some more fact checking before burning your bridges. Hines burnt his bridges big-time. How would that not affect his career going forward?

"Local circles who are sympathetic to ISU" is exactly where the Ames Tribune has it's circulation. It is a small time, small town newspaper. The paper's "local circle" includes local advertisers as well as a huge number of Iowa State fans, employees, and businesses that depend on ISU. Do you think that Hines' article is going to sit well with them, especially since it's been proven false?

Some, but not to the degree you obviously think or desire. I highly doubt there will be a significant loss in revenue from this.

I think you've overstated Fred Hoiberg's importance to some degree. After all, he did choose to leave ISU...and based on your theory, he did so without turmoil...so not sure why you've deified him like you have. Unless you can state the contrary, you don't know what fact checking was done and by whom. In some regards, your rebuttal of what was written is no better than the piece itself.

"Proven false" isn't accurate. If what Hines wrote was the echo of his "sources" and their perceptions, it was true to Hines and therefore can't be proven false unless those same sources refute their own statements. That he may have corroborated those perceptions with others and found the same result, only adds to his determination that they were accurate. Whether those people were lying, we don't know...but I think, in the off chance they were telling the truth, that Fred and Jamie would deny such allegations because it REALLY DOESN'T MATTER NOW. And THAT is what I think is important.

I'm playing devil's advocate here because #1-i think you're taking this waaaay too seriously and are embellishing what you feel will happen because you WANT certain things to happen and #2-you don't have any idea what was done prior to this story being released. You're making assumptions in a similar fashion that your're alleging Hines to have made...

 

[SpokaneCY]

So after the article, the interviews, and the massive threads here is a summary of what I have learned.

5. "Near Double Digits" could mean anything from 1 to 11???

OR anything from 100 to a billion infinity. Let's all think outside the bun here....

 

[HardcoreClone]

What I don't get out of the whole article is that even at face value (not taking into consideration what has been deemed false) is that it really seems to be thrown out there without a real clear message or agenda (by Travis, clearly the sources had an agenda). Most of the time with these types of articles, the message is carried throughout and you feel like you can understand what the writer is trying to convey, here it just floats out there like a wiffle ball against a stiff breeze.

On the same note, I'm still amazed at how it supposedly took 4-5 months to write this, there just isn't any meat or factual digging that could have been done. I can pick up the phone or send emails and reach "nearly a dozen sources" in a matter of hours, so at most I could see this taking a week since there was clearly no other research to backup the stated rumors. It just goes against logic to think that he would have been waiting on any FOI or data points to come back since none were used in the article or for backing the alleged rumors.

Just seems so incredibly odd both of Travis and the Tribune.

I thought the same exact thing, Jeremy.

So what do you think happens with JP? Does he have any hot seat, either coming directly from Leath, or indirectly from angry donors?

Do you think this Hines story goes away soon, or will more stories with more concrete details end up coming out that could make JP look worse?

Speaking to your posts about JP handling another FB coaching search, do you think CPR is gone with the likelihood of 2 more wins this season?

 

[Gossamer]

Has he been fired yet?

I still don't think he will be fired because he'll stick to his sources and stand by his article.

It hasn't been proven False, it's been proven to be poorly written and misleading.

As I said earlier, very few places care about journalistic integrity anymore. That's all out the window to cash flow. This article generated a lot of hits, probably more nationally than locally in Ames. That's something they can now show to advertisers to get more money per ad.

I don't know completely the ins and outs of the Newspaper business, but if other news outlets picked up and ran this story, I'd imagine they'd have to pay for it as well.

In the end, the people that regularly read the newspaper as a newspaper, probably didn't even know of the outrage that happened on the internet. So I doubt their actual printed readership goes down that much because of this one article.

You're right on nearly all accounts. I'd add this...CF is making much more of this than probably any credible news source. Hines didn't write a good story. In the journalism world, it lacks substance and ultimately merit, so unfortunately we're probably the only ones left talking about it. I'll bet Jamie, Fred and their wives have already had a good chuckle about how loose the entire story was.

 

[CurvedAir]

Time to move on...

 

[jahfg]

Some, but not to the degree you obviously think or desire. I highly doubt there will be a significant loss in revenue from this.

I think you've overstated Fred Hoiberg's importance to some degree. After all, he did choose to leave ISU...and based on your theory, he did so without turmoil...so not sure why you've deified him like you have. Unless you can state the contrary, you don't know what fact checking was done and by whom. In some regards, your rebuttal of what was written is no better than the piece itself.

"Proven false" isn't accurate. If what Hines wrote was the echo of his "sources" and their perceptions, it was true to Hines and therefore can't be proven false unless those same sources refute their own statements. That he may have corroborated those perceptions with others and found the same result, only adds to his determination that they were accurate. Whether those people were lying, we don't know...but I think, in the off chance they were telling the truth, that Fred and Jamie would deny such allegations because it REALLY DOESN'T MATTER NOW. And THAT is what I think is important.

I'm playing devil's advocate here because #1-i think you're taking this waaaay too seriously and are embellishing what you feel will happen because you WANT certain things to happen and #2-you don't have any idea what was done prior to this story being released. You're making assumptions in a similar fashion that your're alleging Hines to have made...

Except his assumptions aren't shared to a national audience and he isn't applauded for his extensive research by his buddies in the media.

 

[Gossamer]

Except his assumptions aren't shared to a national audience and he isn't applauded for his extensive research by his buddies in the media.

Hey, we're national! Now if you'd applaud, it would be the same. :smile:

Believe me, he's not being applauded by anyone for that body of work. It's not good.

 

[jahfg]

Hey, we're national! Now if you'd applaud, it would be the same. :smile:

Believe me, he's not being applauded by anyone for that body of work. It's not good.

Then you haven't been paying attention to the national writers sharing his "work" on Twitter and patting him on the back.

 

[Gossamer]

Then you haven't been paying attention to the national writers sharing his "work" on Twitter and patting him on the back.

You're right, I haven't seen them. I am going to tell you this...this piece does not reflect hard-hitting journalism. And, that it is being shared on Twitter, where the life span of a story can be milliseconds AND is deliberately tied to clicks, tells me it's not what we're making it. Not to mention, "national" these days happens too easily to be used as a barometer.

Regardless, I stick to my feelings that our emotional attachment to Fred and the notion that he might have stayed were it not for the subject matter surrounding what Hines wrote, is what has dragged this out. It's an opinion...like all the others.