Devries or TJ poll

[mynameisjonas]

Why can’t Fred use his buyout contract to buy out Prohm’s contract and come back?

I sure do miss Hoiball. Almost as much as I miss having the ability to post this.

cyclonefanatic.com

Because he doesn’t want to coach at Iowa State. JFC. some of you will never be able to accept that the Hoiberg era is OVER.

 

[RustShack]

For the TJ crowd I’m curious 1) how much have you watched TJ coached teams play and 2) what do you see that is schematically different between him and our current regime.

I’ll admit I haven’t watched him a ton. A SDSU I watched but mainly to watch Daum and I distantly knew the Tellinghuisen kid from Iowa. I just watched one of the UNLV vs Utah State games replays and I if I didn’t know TJ there is no way I’d guess this is a guy we’d be interested in and in some ways not a guy I’d expect to have coached under Fred.

Offensively UNLV plays with no pace (understand this is just one game but their Ken Pom tempo is 238th). They run sets that look a lot like Iowa State. There is an initial action that is ok but it’s only the primary action. Everyone else stands and watches and when the action breaks down it breaks down into iso. They also ran a lot of pass/cut dribble drive type action but the ball movement was really slow and again ended up in mostly iso. Their saving grace in this game is they shot the ball very well including some really tough shots.

Defensively I had trouble figuring out their scheme. Rotations were lazy. I don’t know what their plan was against a ball screen. They gave up a lot offensive rebounds. It felt really familiar honestly. They eventually switched to a zone because they couldn’t defend.

TJ is an outstanding recruiter, I get it. He has Ames ties that would make him a long term guy if successful, I get it. He’s a really good guy, I get it. Someone tell me a basketball in game reason he’s an upgrade though. My admittedly small sample size that was hard to find. I should note I actually would love him to be the guy because it’s a good story and I think he’d love to stay here. I just don’t see it based on this game.

Lol they haven’t watched his games. They just know he’s been here before.

 

[GrindingAway]

Lol they haven’t watched his games. They just know he’s been here before.

I know they haven't. I think there is a consensus that hiring TJ means the return of Hoiball. I've watched a couple games now and the style is more like a combination of Wisconsin on the offensive end with less discipline and Hoiball style defense.

 

[Gunnerclone]

For the TJ crowd I’m curious 1) how much have you watched TJ coached teams play and 2) what do you see that is schematically different between him and our current regime.

I’ll admit I haven’t watched him a ton. A SDSU I watched but mainly to watch Daum and I distantly knew the Tellinghuisen kid from Iowa. I just watched one of the UNLV vs Utah State games replays and I if I didn’t know TJ there is no way I’d guess this is a guy we’d be interested in and in some ways not a guy I’d expect to have coached under Fred.

Offensively UNLV plays with no pace (understand this is just one game but their Ken Pom tempo is 238th). They run sets that look a lot like Iowa State. There is an initial action that is ok but it’s only the primary action. Everyone else stands and watches and when the action breaks down it breaks down into iso. They also ran a lot of pass/cut dribble drive type action but the ball movement was really slow and again ended up in mostly iso. Their saving grace in this game is they shot the ball very well including some really tough shots.

Defensively I had trouble figuring out their scheme. Rotations were lazy. I don’t know what their plan was against a ball screen. They gave up a lot offensive rebounds. It felt really familiar honestly. They eventually switched to a zone because they couldn’t defend.

TJ is an outstanding recruiter, I get it. He has Ames ties that would make him a long term guy if successful, I get it. He’s a really good guy, I get it. Someone tell me a basketball in game reason he’s an upgrade though. My admittedly small sample size that was hard to find. I should note I actually would love him to be the guy because it’s a good story and I think he’d love to stay here. I just don’t see it based on this game.

SHOOTERS. Specifically 3p shooters. That is the #1 difference. We will have shooters with TJ leading recruiting.

also, Prohm’s offense is just as fine as any other vanilla scheme that 90% of P5 runs, there’s just no 3p threat that defenses have to adjust on.

 

[CycloneErik]

Lol they haven’t watched his games. They just know he’s been here before.

Many probably look at him as a buddy. We get that a lot, like the Rhoads years.

 

[Gunnerclone]

Many probably look at him as a buddy. We get that a lot, like the Rhoads years.

I just look at him as an ace recruiter and a Cyclone. But **** that guy.

 

[GrindingAway]

SHOOTERS. Specifically 3p shooters. That is the #1 difference. We will have shooters with TJ leading recruiting.

also, Prohm’s offense is just as fine as any other vanilla scheme that 90% of P5 runs, there’s just no 3p threat that defenses have to adjust on.

Yeah we should recruit shooters like...

(checks TJs roster for the top shooter)

Caleb Grill

Regardless I didn’t ask about recruiting. I asked for an in game reason.

Also if you watch Prohm or TJ and see the same offense that everyone else runs you should look closer. Not every offense that uses 5 out spacing and throws in a frequent high ball screen is created equal.

 

[Tom Buch]

Hoiberg is not coming back. Otz, Smith, and DeVries are unproven at this level. If we are to change, we need a better option. Haven’t seen that yet. A bird in hand . . .

 

[jcisuclones]

Hoiberg is not coming back. Otz, Smith, and DeVries are unproven at this level. If we are to change, we need a better option. Haven’t seen that yet. A bird in hand . . .

So who's your viable pick?

 

[Gunnerclone]

So who's your viable pick?

John Beilin lol.

 

[mjhavlo76]

I really am skeptical of Devries or T.J. coaching in the Big 12. I just think they'd be mediocre at best in that league. The poster that mentioned Kelvin Sampson was brilliant. But I'm not so sure we could lure him away from Houston.

 

[demoncore1031]

I personally wouldn't mind if JP did some scouting on Winthrop's head coach. Can't remember the dude's name at the moment.

 

[CycloneVet]

My only reservation I have about Devries and it may be a bit unfair. I remember the last local successful mid major coach that was supposedly a breath of fresh air that we got. He was going to instill the discipline the previous regime didn’t have and run a “system” that was going to get us wins.
He seemed to get a few players but couldn’t put together a complete roster ie too many mid major guys to complement a couple good players. Then there was the transfers out of the program that killed us.
Chewy seemed like a great hire at the time. Then it never happened for him at ISU and we sucked .

 

[Halincandenza]

Hiring a head coach is always a gamble, whether they are from a midmajor or an assistant at a high major or even another high major coach. I don't think you limit the search to just a certain subset. The problem is that I don't think they will want to spend much so that will be a limiting factor in and of itself. You will then only be looking at midmajor or assistants.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

My only reservation I have about Devries and it may be a bit unfair. I remember the last local successful mid major coach that was supposedly a breath of fresh air that we got. He was going to instill the discipline the previous regime didn’t have and run a “system” that was going to get us wins.
He seemed to get a few players but couldn’t put together a complete roster ie too many mid major guys to complement a couple good players. Then there was the transfers out of the program that killed us.
Chewy seemed like a great hire at the time. Then it never happened for him at ISU and we sucked .

I think that is fairly spot on. And it made me think of something reading your post. And that is, some of the very same people who are pimping T.J...............are some of the very same people who started this website to get rid of Wayne Morgan. I am sure you are aware that the arguments for T.J. is that he has a ton of experience as a high level assistant, and is a great recruiter. Couldn't the same argument have been made about Wayne and all his years at Syracuse?

And let's add that Wayne had 6 years experience of head coaching in the Big West Conference with Long Beach State. Who was the Big West you say? Well, when he was coaching at that time, it included schools like................UNLV, Utah State, New Mexico State and Nevada among others. Basically the same level T.J. is coaching now. And in six seasons his conference record was 57-41 along with finishing 3rd once, 2nd twice, and winning the conference in 99-00 with a 15-1 record. Not to bad, right? Every bit as good as T.J.'s resume......AND......just as much recruiting and assistant experience.

Just thought it interesting they are pushing a coach with less of a resume as one they couldn't get out of here fast enough.


Oh....and Wayne never had a losing season at ISU.

 

[rochclone]

I think that is fairly spot on. And it made me think of something reading your post. And that is, some of the very same people who are pimping T.J...............are some of the very same people who started this website to get rid of Wayne Morgan. I am sure you are aware that the arguments for T.J. is that he has a ton of experience as a high level assistant, and is a great recruiter. Couldn't the same argument have been made about Wayne and all his years at Syracuse?

And let's add that Wayne had 6 years experience of head coaching in the Big West Conference with Long Beach State. Who was the Big West you say? Well, when he was coaching at that time, it included schools like................UNLV, Utah State, New Mexico State and Nevada among others. Basically the same level T.J. is coaching now. And in six seasons his conference record was 57-41 along with finishing 3rd once, 2nd twice, and winning the conference in 99-00 with a 15-1 record. Not to bad, right? Every bit as good as T.J.'s resume......AND......just as much recruiting and assistant experience.

Just thought it interesting they are pushing a coach with less of a resume as one they couldn't get out of here fast enough.


Oh....and Wayne never had a losing season at ISU.

I think the resume conversation is fair. I also think there are other options outside of T.J. such as Craig Smith, Medved, Joe Golding and Nagy.
But do you really believe that Wayne Morgan was a good coach? If so why hasn’t he coached in the last decade? I think there are two distinct questions; (1) Is Wayne a coach that can lead the program into the future and consistently play in the NCAA Tournament? (2) Could you do worse if you fire him?


The first question is a “No” for both Morgan and Prohm. The second question is “Yes” for both situations as well. But simply because the second question can be answered “Yes” doesn’t mean it changes the answer to #1.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

I think the resume conversation is fair. I also think there are other options outside of T.J. such as Craig Smith, Medved, Joe Golding and Nagy.
But do you really believe that Wayne Morgan was a good coach? If so why hasn’t he coached in the last decade? I think there are two distinct questions; (1) Is Wayne a coach that can lead the program into the future and consistently play in the NCAA Tournament? (2) Could you do worse if you fire him?


The first question is a “No” for both Morgan and Prohm. The second question is “Yes” for both situations as well. But simply because the second question can be answered “Yes” doesn’t mean it changes the answer to #1.

It was strictly comparing resume's. After that.....everything becomes %100 subjective. No one knows the answer to #1 because he was never given a chance unlike Steve. I think you started under the premise I was equating Wayne with Steve. I'm not. It's Wayne and T.J. And if the yes answer to #2 doesn't mean it changes the answer to #1........then why not hire me?

 

[rochclone]

It was strictly comparing resume's. After that.....everything becomes %100 subjective. No one knows the answer to #1 because he was never given a chance unlike Steve. I think you started under the premise I was equating Wayne with Steve. I'm not. It's Wayne and T.J. And if the yes answer to #2 doesn't mean it changes the answer to #1........then why not hire me?

But we saw three years of Wayne running the Iowa State program and then made the determination to move on. It wasn’t like he got one year as an interim and then we made a change. I don’t remember too many people throwing a fit about promoting Wayne.
Now the job performance wasn’t really 100% subjective. The team got to the NIT Final 4 in 2004. Got to the tournament with a great February run in 2005. And then 2006 was extremely painful. That team started the year ranked and then loss to Iona by 17 at Hilton and also a Fresno State squad (15-13) at Hilton by 7. By the end of the 6-10 conference year they got bounced in the first round of the Big 12 to Oklahoma State. They acted like the didn’t even want to play basketball toward the end of that year.

 

[Gunnerclone]

Imagine thinking that Wayne Morgan’s w/L record is why he got ran off.

 

[Statefan10]

Imagine thinking that Wayne Morgan’s w/L record is why he got ran off.

I was pretty young when this happened, although I remember him and the team.. What happened exactly?