Hardest Colleges To Get Into for 2023

FriendlySpartan

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I could've written almost the exact same paragraph. Except, my daughter is still pre-med but she's at the top of her class and has a terrific MCAT score.
If she is still premed I would also strongly advise she consider becoming a PA unless she has a specialty that she is very confident she can get into in mind.
 

jcyclonee

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If she is still premed I would also strongly advise she consider becoming a PA unless she has a specialty that she is very confident she can get into in mind.
The world needs doctors and she has the academic motivation and discipline to get through it. Yes, being and becoming a doctor is more complicated than it needs to be right now but it is still a tremendously important and rewarding profession (in multiple ways). She has considered becoming a DO instead of an MD.
 
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carvers4math

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Yeah, the other advantage of the AP classes is that it counts toward college. My son started at ISU this year with 39 college credits. So he started 9 hours into his sophomore year. Saving me $25k give or take. ISU uses the RAI to admit, and he was admitted at the end of his junior year so it allowed him to apply for housing early and got his first choice, and some academic scholarship money. He was top 5% at Centennial and didn't study for ACT. He thought he could just retake whatever section he needed to raise it. He got a 25 or something and decided not to waste time or money retaking it as his RAI was around 280. My summary, quality of classes matter for a high school that uses the weighted GPA. If the high school doesn't she may be right.


Here is the RAI calculation:

RAI Formula​

ACT composite (or converted SAT) score x 3
+Cumulative GPA x 30
+Number of years of high school core courses x 5
RAI (Regent Admission Index)
Note: For purposes of calculating the RAI, SAT scores will be converted to ACT composite equivalents; high school GPA is expressed on a 4-point scale; and number of high school courses completed in the core subject areas is expressed in terms of years or fractions of years of study. *Grade-point average: Enter your high school grade-point average and scale. If your school provides more than one GPA (e.g. weighted GPA and non-weighted GPA), use the best GP

Applicants who achieve at least a 245 RAI score and who meet the minimum high school course requirements will automatically be offered admission. Applicants who achieve less than a 245 RAI score and who meet the minimum high school course requirements may also be offered admission, but their applications will be reviewed on an individual basis.
AP and dual enrollment count for credit at ISU but not all schools. At least when my son went to Caltech, they did not accept AP or dual enrollment for credit. Their classes were pretty rigorous, first year Calculus included proof Calculus. I am guessing some other schools also do not accept them, probably MIT and maybe some similar schools in the math/science vein such as Harvey Mudd. All of my boys were admitted to Notre Dame but none went there, they did accept AP and if I remember correctly, dual enrollment credits.
 

carvers4math

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Not that I've met a lot of them but the few Notre Dame grads I've met, I've liked.
With my grad degree there, I liked most but not all of them, similar to my fellow Iowa State alumni actually. The ND equivalent to tavern hawks is subway alumni, who adopted ND as their team because of their Irish and/or Catholic immigrant roots. They seem way less obnoxious than tavern hawks.
 

carvers4math

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The world needs doctors and she has the academic motivation and discipline to get through it. Yes, being and becoming a doctor is more complicated than it needs to be right now but it is still a tremendously important and rewarding profession (in multiple ways). She is considered becoming a DO instead of an MD.
I am hunting for another female gynecologist as mine moved out of state. Suggest there is a huge market for those.
 

cytor

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My son just got accepted at Hamline university up in St Paul. It's $58k a year and he got a $25k per year scholarship if he attends. He's still waiting to hear from other schools before choosing.
 

FriendlySpartan

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The world needs doctors and she has the academic motivation and discipline to get through it. Yes, being and becoming a doctor is more complicated than it needs to be right now but it is still a tremendously important and rewarding profession (in multiple ways). She is considered becoming a DO instead of an MD.
I am a big fan of osteopathic medicine and the stigma against DO's is non existent at this point. I should have clarified beforehand that I am an Emergency Physician (MD not DO) and while medicine is sometimes a rewarding profession it is also a horrific place to be right now and in the future for a lot of specialties. One of the reasons I suggested becoming a PA is that you still get to practice medicine at a high level but aren't forced into a specialization unless its anesthesia. You also have a fraction of the student loans, shorter school time, and freedom to change fields whenever you want.
 
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cyclone13

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AP and dual enrollment count for credit at ISU but not all schools. At least when my son went to Caltech, they did not accept AP or dual enrollment for credit. Their classes were pretty rigorous, first year Calculus included proof Calculus. I am guessing some other schools also do not accept them, probably MIT and maybe some similar schools in the math/science vein such as Harvey Mudd. All of my boys were admitted to Notre Dame but none went there, they did accept AP and if I remember correctly, dual enrollment credits.
I concur with this statement. Some schools allow dual enrollment for credit, some will use these courses but not credit (the student can take let's say Chemistry 102 instead of 101),
It also depends on where you take the dual enrollment courses. Some allow credits from local community colleges like Minnesota. But let's say you apply to Michigan: they allow credits if you take dual enrollment at U of Minnesota Twin Cities, but not from, let's say: Normandale Community College.
 
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cyclone13

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My son just got accepted at Hamline university up in St Paul. It's $58k a year and he got a $25k per year scholarship if he attends. He's still waiting to hear from other schools before choosing.
Congratulations!
What other schools does he apply?
 

stateofmind

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AP and dual enrollment count for credit at ISU but not all schools. At least when my son went to Caltech, they did not accept AP or dual enrollment for credit. Their classes were pretty rigorous, first year Calculus included proof Calculus. I am guessing some other schools also do not accept them, probably MIT and maybe some similar schools in the math/science vein such as Harvey Mudd. All of my boys were admitted to Notre Dame but none went there, they did accept AP and if I remember correctly, dual enrollment credits.
I wish he would've tried to apply to some of the prestigious institutions to see if he would've been accepted. But he had his heart set on ISU from the start. He toyed around with ASU, but when his nerd herd buddies all decided on ISU he was set. His first calculus at ISU this semester is Calc II and that has been a wakeup call. He's doing fine, but it's kicking his butt.
 

FriendlySpartan

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I wish he would've tried to apply to some of the prestigious institutions to see if he would've been accepted. But he had his heart set on ISU from the start. He toyed around with ASU, but when his nerd herd buddies all decided on ISU he was set. His first calculus at ISU this semester is Calc II and that has been a wakeup call. He's doing fine, but it's kicking his butt.
If ASU meant Arizona State one in person visit would have been enough to change his mind although ISU is a better school.
 
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cyclone13

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University of Minn, and St Thomas. I think he's leaning Hamline at the moment.
My son hasn't even submitted any of his applications yet - he has couple of deadlines on 10/31 and 11/1,
Good luck to your son.
 

jcyclonee

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I am a big fan of osteopathic medicine and the stigma against DO's is non existent at this point. I should have clarified beforehand that I am an Emergency Physician (MD not DO) and while medicine is sometimes a rewarding profession it is also a horrific place to be right now and in the future for a lot of specialties. One of the reasons I suggested becoming a PA is that you still get to practice medicine at a high level but aren't forced into a specialization unless its anesthesia. You also have a fraction of the student loans, shorter school time, and freedom to change fields whenever you want.
Thanks for the clarifications. From family members and friends, we understand that the life of an MD has become very and unnecessarily complicated at work. I'm glad to hear the stigma of the DO is pretty much non-existent. My daughter still hears a bit about it but doesn't seem concerned.
 

Antihawk240

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I'm wondering about HS performance's impact on college admission and financial aid ... (not just from Cyclone13 ... from anyone)

My son is an 8th grader, very intelligent. He has consistently taken math up 1 grade.

Because we value trying hard and habits of character, we have pushed him to take challenging classes (and he's in a private school that is rigorous).

My sister, who has kids that are older, would say that we're doing it all wrong. Her point is that you should take the fluffiest classes possible, get the highest GPA possible, because it's just "a game" for college admission and scholarships, and you need to look good on paper.

To a degree, she's right -- my son might end up with a 3.2 GPA while being challenged, whereas if he took easy classes at an easier school, he might be 3.9. (Even though he could likely run circles around the kids to took nothing but "fluffy" classes.)

Who's right?

(EDIT: he says he wants to go into Engineering or computer science, etc. If that matters. And I know lots of kids change their mind.)
My wife and I are in your same boat. We have (3) children. 1 in college at Iowa State, 1 in high school , 1 in middle school. We continually push for their challenges in school. We refuse to let them coast. Granted they are blessed when it comes to the academics, which it sounds like your 8th grader is as well.
What I can contribute to you is my child at Iowa State is having a much easier time "adjusting" to the --lets call it: Non High School Classroom. My oldest has seen challenges from the 1st day class and takes a deep breath and says "no different than AP Calculus or Stats as a 9th grader." We have very good friends who share your sisters philosophy. Their children are in college and all (4) are having a very very very hard time adjusting.

As a parent to parent. I will vote over and over that you are doing it correctly.
 

jcyclonee

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I am hunting for another female gynecologist as mine moved out of state. Suggest there is a huge market for those.
I'll let her know that if she becomes a gynecologist I already have a patient referral candidate for her.

From our understanding, there is also a huge market for dermatologists due to the popularity of botox and the fact that procedures aren't generally covered and/or discounted by insurance companies.
 
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Antihawk240

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AP and dual enrollment count for credit at ISU but not all schools. At least when my son went to Caltech, they did not accept AP or dual enrollment for credit. Their classes were pretty rigorous, first year Calculus included proof Calculus. I am guessing some other schools also do not accept them, probably MIT and maybe some similar schools in the math/science vein such as Harvey Mudd. All of my boys were admitted to Notre Dame but none went there, they did accept AP and if I remember correctly, dual enrollment credits.
Correct. My son applied and was accepted into Notre Dame. His AP's and Dual Enrollments would have transferred. Fun Fact: He chose to go to Iowa State, where all his AP and Dual Enrollments also transferred in.

Side Note: Notre Dame was very nice, you can not dispute their academics are good. It was the vibe he got when talking to professors at Notre Dame vs Iowa State and the students he would be working in the lab with that was the deciding factor. He just felt Iowa State was "warmer" and "more comfortable."