Way too early starting lineup talk for the 23-24 season

moores2

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Why do people think King will play the 5? I don’t recall him playing the 5 this past year. I understand that we have a lot of options at the 4 and we need to find minutes but King is not a rim protector and I think he may struggle when guarded by someone bigger. TJ will have some interesting decisions to make.
because we don't think that rolling with BRE and Ward for 20 minutes a piece gives us the best chance to win basketball games. We would have gotten a big in the transfer portal to play the "5" role if we weren't going to let King play there. Watson and Omaha will bring plenty of rim protection with them to get away will playing a smaller 5 man.
 
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Cyforce

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Why do people think King will play the 5? I don’t recall him playing the 5 this past year. I understand that we have a lot of options at the 4 and we need to find minutes but King is not a rim protector and I think he may struggle when guarded by someone bigger. TJ will have some interesting decisions to make.
He gives us another offense threat on the floor. Definitely won't be a 30 minute guy but paired with Biliew they should be fine. Otherwise you have three of our best players splitting 40 minutes.

Honestly would you rather have him take minutes from Biliew and Momcilovic or Jones and Ward? I think TJ has already answered the question by taking all guards instead of grabbing a Center.
 
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WizardKelly

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We’ll be good at the 5 with Tre and Rob..just screen, rebound and wall-up…I can’t wait to see Omaha ballhawking from the helpside when he’s playing the 4 or shooting the gap at the 3
 
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isucy86

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I personally think that they could roll out a lineup with Tre King at the 5.

Lipsey
Pav
Gilbert
Omaha
King

Yeah, I get that Tre is not going to be a rim protector, but he's kind of a wide body with some post ability. That lineup to me is kind of 5 out creating driving lanes and then switch everything on defense. Then if you are getting beat up inside, start mixing in Ward and Jones. I just doubt that there's many teams on the schedule that can make us pay too badly for playing small ball.
I agree about King not being a match up liability, especially early in the season. Not sure who we play in the ESPN Tournament- but Iowa doesn't have a post whose length or physicality is going to give King or Biliew trouble.

IMO how much King plays at the 5 is going to depend on how much trapping halfcourt defense we play and the ability of our guards to defend on ball. Last year we trapped a lot and when doubling up the ball, a rim protector is important.

The nice thing about next year's roster is position flexibility for some of our key guys both on offensive and defensive end:

Biliew: 3/4/5
King: 3/4/5
Watson: 3/4
Gilbert: 1/2/3
Williams: 1/2/3
 

hurdleisu24

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I agree about King not being a match up liability, especially early in the season. Not sure who we play in the ESPN Tournament- but Iowa doesn't have a post whose length or physicality is going to give King or Biliew trouble.

IMO how much King plays at the 5 is going to depend on how much trapping halfcourt defense we play and the ability of our guards to defend on ball. Last year we trapped a lot and when doubling up the ball, a rim protector is important.

The nice thing about next year's roster is position flexibility for some of our key guys both on offensive and defensive end:

Biliew: 3/4/5
King: 3/4/5
Watson: 3/4
Gilbert: 1/2/3
Williams: 1/2/3
It seems that many on here forget how good Ward was at that before he came to ISU. He had a rocky transition to Big 12 ball last year. From what Williams has said, he has had a great spring. Also, go and look at his size and Tre compared to Osun. They are not much different. Tre doesn't have the height as those two but he has more bulk.

Tre, BRE, Ward '23>/= BRE, Osun, Ward '22
 

cyfan92

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I'm fascinated to see this years lineups. We all know Lipsey is going to start the season, especially as it seems JW is still coming back from his injury. By far the two most talented players are both college "4's". I'd rather bring one off the bench to start the year and bolster the bench. I think the "5" spot in 2023/24 will feel a lot like it did during the 2016-2017 season with Tre, BRE, and Ward playing 18/12/10.

Here is my ranking for minutes played (non-con):

Lipsey
Gilbert
Biliew
Paveletzke
C. Jones
King
Momcilovic
B Jones
Ward
Watson
Williams
Hamilton
Fish

Nov-23Mar-24
Tamin LipseyTamin Lipsey
Jackson PaveletzkeKeshon Gilbert
Keshon GilbertOmaha Biliew
Omaha BiliewMilan Momcilovic
Tre KingTre King

11/2023 first subs are Curtis Jones and Milan. 3/2024 first subs are Pav and Curtis Jones.
 
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Cyclonepride

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We have a more talented roster but this is aggressive.

I hope Gilbert can be as good as Gabe was this year but that is optimistic. Even better? Gabe was 2nd team All-Big 12. He was really good.

Don't understand the Osun and Omaha comparison? Omaha is a 4 we can use on the perimeter some.

Curtis Jones being better than Jaren Holmes seems optimistic as well. Very optimistic.

Paveletzke over Grill? Maybe long term, I hope?
I think the skillsets may be more important than the overall skill levels, if that makes sense. Our offense suffered greatly from having few options that could beat people off the dribble (the best one was Lipsey, but his complete lack of an outside shot made the defense sag). These three guys seem to have the ability to stress the defense from inside, outside and off the dribble.
 

seadog

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If Hamilton is not in the regular rotation we have a very good team coming up. He look Way better than that the couple of times I saw him on TV
 
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bozclone

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He gives us another offense threat on the floor. Definitely won't be a 30 minute guy but paired with Biliew they should be fine. Otherwise you have three of our best players splitting 40 minutes.

Honestly would you rather have him take minutes from Biliew and Momcilovic or Jones and Ward? I think TJ has already answered the question by taking all guards instead of grabbing a Center.
It will be interesting to see how TJ handles minutes and combinations on the floor this year. I'm sure he will be creative. He has depth and a variety of skillsets to work with.
 

Cyclones125

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From a standpoint of looking at attrition vs who we've added, how can you not be excited talent and skill-set wise for this next year. Not to mention current roster improveing by being in the program for a 2nd/3rd year with the same coaching staff.

Osun < Biliew
Kunc < Momcilovic
Holmes <= C. Jones
(good)Gabe <= Gilbert
Grill < Paveletzke
E. King < Hamilton
open scolly < Fish
empty walkon spot < Kelderman

Obviously, with all due respect to the guys leaving. Definitely an unbelievable overachieving group
You threw respect (and sanity) out the window when you picked Gilbert over a Good Gabe.
 
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cjkimm15

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You threw respect (and sanity) out the window when you picked Gilbert over a Good Gabe.
I think good Gabe’s outside shooting is similar to Gilbert but Gilbert is much quicker and has shown he can create off the bounce, get in the lane and finish at the rim or create for others which was not something Gabe could do very often.

Defense is hard to gauge from watching highlights but Gilbert looks like a capable defender. Now I’d assume he’s not going to be to the level of defender as Gabe because you could probably make the argument Gabe was the best perimeter defender ISU has had in quite some time.

Last years team struggled to get in the paint and create outside of Lipsey and Holmes sometimes. Feel like next years team has some guys more than capable of doing that with improved shooting as well. Should be a very exciting team IMO and with TJ’s track record of molding a team to player together and play with toughness I see no reason we can’t be a 6 seed or better again next year. Will be much younger but also much more talented.
 

OtownClone

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We’ll be good at the 5 with Tre and Rob..just screen, rebound and wall-up…I can’t wait to see Omaha ballhawking from the helpside when he’s playing the 4 or shooting the gap at the 3
Don't count out Ward yet. If he can add strength, consistently be where he should be on D, and defend without fouling (or at least fouling less) he can be disruptive. He is very long and is an excellent offensive rebounder. Remember that he had visa issues and joined the team late last year. With a full off-season this year, and Osun having graduated, he should get plenty of opportunity to practice and get coached up to improve on last year.
 
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cyclonehomer

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I think the biggest thing about King playing the 5 is Omaha playing the 4. He should be a plus defender from day one and is a rim protector. I think that's a different proposition than King playing the 5 with 4 guards out there.
This is a good take and pretty much how I feel. King as a 5 in a vacuum isn't ideal but he's not playing in a vacuum. He can man that interior spot on offense and combined with Omaha (who I'm expecting to play a lot) I'm just not worried against most teams defensively.

Having a group of King/Omaha/Milan out there is just way more dynamic on offense than losing one of those guys for Ward or BRE for what doesn't feel like a major difference defensively.

It's not that Tre is a natural 5, but he appears to have a skillset that can work there and it does way more to maximize the talent on the floor, IMO.
 
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Didley

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I think with next years team it’s basically irrelevant to label them 1-5. With a defense that “switches 1 through 5” everyone needs to be able to defend anyone and help when chaos ensues. On offense really there’s dudes that set picks and dudes that get picks set for, on ball and off the ball. Ideally anyone could penetrate, shoot 3s, and set picks. Positions feel kind of irrelevant
 
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WizardKelly

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Don't count out Ward yet. If he can add strength, consistently be where he should be on D, and defend without fouling (or at least fouling less) he can be disruptive. He is very long and is an excellent offensive rebounder. Remember that he had visa issues and joined the team late last year. With a full off-season this year, and Osun having graduated, he should get plenty of opportunity to practice and get coached up to improve on last year.
I completely forgot about him. I like Ward, he does a lot of things the right way out there
 
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Heinlesj

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Wouldn't it be interesting to see TJ go hockey lineup? Roll out 5 guys, then at the first TV timeout roll out a line of 5 new guys? The lines would be a mix of "starters" and projected off the bench players, so the 2nd line would be comparable to the first in talent.
I like this. With a caveat of Williams being healthy. Starting 5 of-
Lipsey
Pav
Gilbert
Omaha
King

Then roll in next 5 of-
Williams
Jones
Demarion
Momcilovic
Ward/Jones
 

cayin

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Don't count out Ward yet. If he can add strength, consistently be where he should be on D, and defend without fouling (or at least fouling less) he can be disruptive. He is very long and is an excellent offensive rebounder. Remember that he had visa issues and joined the team late last year. With a full off-season this year, and Osun having graduated, he should get plenty of opportunity to practice and get coached up to improve on last year.
Indeed. I am very high on Ward. He has the length and athleticism that other players do not have. This year he will have a full off season which should benefit him greatly. I bet we will see him for 20 plus a game.
 
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