stabbing outside of pella middle school

[andybernard]

That's the point though, they're needed for phone calls and texts in student safety situations.
Until schools can guarantee a safe environment and up to date information I'm deadset against banning phones.
Be an adult and ask that they be put in bags or lockers or even on a separatr "phone table" during each class, but banning altogetrt is asking for a mass causlty event imho.

Lol..."be an adult and ask"

I taught 7th grade for 10 years before finally having enough.

Luckily, I never had an issue in my classroom but a lot of major behaviors start when you ask to take away "my property". I know of at least 5 occurrences in my school where an entire classroom had to be cleared because of a student getting violent after refusing to give up their phone or even just to put it in their locker or backpack.

"Asking" works wonders on 95% of the students, but what do you do about the other 5%. It either escalates to a completely ridiculous and unnecessary level, or you let it go because "they aren't bothering anyone else." In the case of the latter, the other 95% has now seen that they can get away with it, and the problem snowballs.

 

[Rabbuk]

because teachers have lost so much power in the past decade that even if the teacher said put your phone away, the kids will not listen.

Parents at the school I worked at and my parents worked at routinely said their kids should be allowed to call them during class without restriction. It can't be overstated how much general respect for teachers has been lost since even 2009 when I graduated out. My parents always sided with my teachers unless the teacher was so far out of bounds it wasn't funny.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

I disagree completely. I'll have a kid starting school in a few years and I hope they ban cell phones in school. I won't be giving her a phone that does anything more than call or text until she's over 16 either.

Kids being glued to smart phones is a massive ******* problem and we need to not let it continue, societally.

A basic call/text type of phone? I'm fine with a kid having that. But no apps or internet.

This is a good idea in theory but impossible in practice. Most parents that try this it doesn’t do anything but push kids away while giving parents a false sense of security. If you kid has friends they will just let them use their phone, or iPad, or laptop or anything and they will make their own accounts on their friends device.

If you think any of the “parent control” apps or features don’t have easy workarounds you’re being intentionally naive. And even if you kids doesn’t push that boundaries they can just use a friends as mentioned above.

As long as social media exists and it’s the main network kids use banning it in your household is an exercise in futility. Instead you have to have the uncomfortable and frequent conversations with kids about the devices and their lives.

If you raised your kid on the device or used it as a distraction from the time they were a toddler it’s most likely too late anyways.

 

[ISUTex]

very thorough email just came out from the principal.

confirmed knife brought in from outside & two students treated for non-life threatening injuries.

this was the communication we wanted 2 hours ago, but better late than never. I'm sure the principal has been part of the incident response and this is his first moment at a computer.

I'm sure you would've handled it perfectly.

 

[Cyclonsin]

Guidance counselors are now psychologists most of their time it seems instead of helping them with college and careers like I was used to.

Just out of curiosity, how old are you?

I'm 36 and guidance counselors at grade schools I attended (going all the way back to elementary, even) were entirely therapists/psychologists for the students.

We had different staff ("career advisors", if my memory serves) who helped with laying out a plan for your future after HS.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

Just out of curiosity, how old are you?

I'm 36 and guidance counselors at grade schools I attended (going all the way back to elementary, even) were entirely therapists/psychologists for the students.

We had different staff ("career advisors", if my memory serves) who helped with laying out a plan for your future after HS.

They were also most likely social workers and the maybe 1 psychologist for the district (unless your district was massive)

 

[ISUTex]

Just saying that I've seen firsthand what can happen. Both daughters had friends whose parents did this and it very much heightened their levels of anxiety and depression... feeling left out and cut off, wondering what was being said about them, being made fun of, etc. I know this because I heard them talk about it themselves.

I'd never tell anyone how to parent their kid. And I 100% agree that so many of these apps and social media in general is a very toxic and damaging cesspool. All I'm saying is that I don't agree with others who think taking their phone away is some magic bullet that will make everything better.

I do agree that during the school day phones should not be allowed.

Wouldn't it be great if parents took their kid's cell phones from them before they went to school?

By the way, I'm glad everybody is ok at Pella. Scary stuff.

 

[BCClone]

Just out of curiosity, how old are you?

I'm 36 and guidance counselors at grade schools I attended (going all the way back to elementary, even) were entirely therapists/psychologists for the students.

We had different staff ("career advisors", if my memory serves) who helped with laying out a plan for your future after HS.

50.

 

[coolerifyoudid]

Obviously, everyone's situation is different, so drawing a line in the sand seems futile on this subject. IMO, the smart phone is too easy of a scapegoat. Parent your kids to appreciate the time away from the phone. Teach them to use it as a tool and not a social crutch. Show them both good and bad aspects of the phone so they know what to look out for.

For most of us, there's a huge learning curve because it's a complete 180 from how we grew up. Early on, I asked my older sibs for advice on how they dealt with phone with their kids. I found my own blend of what's worked and what hasn't. I made mistakes and learned from them.

I'm completely aware of every negative aspect of phones, but there is a bit of an echo chamber on the subject. Even on social media, there are a lot of positive and supportive people that can reach some kids that are too shy in live social settings and need an outlet to be heard. It's not all negative despite what many like to say.

Kids are going to access this information on their own or through a friend. In my experience, banning anything from a kid makes them wonder what they're missing and make them want it more. (Please no lazy "If they want to try cocaine, are your ok with that?" replies. You know it's not the same. Besides, I will show them the proper technique so they don't look like a newb at parties)

 

[BCClone]

Obviously, everyone's situation is different, so drawing a line in the sand seems futile on this subject. IMO, the smart phone is too easy of a scapegoat. Parent your kids to appreciate the time away from the phone. Teach them to use it as a tool and not a social crutch. Show them both good and bad aspects of the phone so they know what to look out for.

For most of us, there's a huge learning curve because it's a complete 180 from how we grew up. Early on, I asked my older sibs for advice on how they dealt with phone with their kids. I found my own blend of what's worked and what hasn't. I made mistakes and learned from them.

I'm completely aware of every negative aspect of phones, but there is a bit of an echo chamber on the subject. Even on social media, there are a lot of positive and supportive people that can reach some kids that are too shy in live social settings and need an outlet to be heard. It's not all negative despite what many like to say.

Kids are going to access this information on their own or through a friend. In my experience, banning anything from a kid makes them wonder what they're missing and make them want it more. (Please no lazy "If they want to try cocaine, are your ok with that?" replies. You know it's not the same. Besides, I will show them the proper technique so they don't look like a newb at parties)

The positive of them having a phone is at least you have a way to see what they are on. I know they can delete stuff but kids forget and there are still ways to catch some of it. If they use others, you will have no idea.

My kids had Nintendo game boys or whatever they were called. I saw them Scribbling away one time and asked what they were doing. They were 2 or 3 rd grade at the time. Told me they were talking to Jimmy. I asked how and they showed me that they could contact other people with the same device. Kids find ways around things.

 

[snowcraig2.0]

Ever had a small cut? Did you go to the hospital?

Yes, every time.

 

[clones_jer]

How can schools guarantee a safe environment in this version of society? Blame the lawmakers, not the schools.

for one, utilize the metal detectors at the doors to identify a knife being brought in? I'm not sure why they're there if they won't find a knife. I kinda suspect they've been turned off long ago.

 

[clones_jer]

It’s parents. Not anyone else.

stupid people breed faster ... it's one of those funny jokes that is all too real

 

[coolerifyoudid]

This is a good idea in theory but impossible in practice. Most parents that try this it doesn’t do anything but push kids away while giving parents a false sense of security. If you kid has friends they will just let them use their phone, or iPad, or laptop or anything and they will make their own accounts on their friends device.

If you think any of the “parent control” apps or features don’t have easy workarounds you’re being intentionally naive. And even if you kids doesn’t push that boundaries they can just use a friends as mentioned above.

As long as social media exists and it’s the main network kids use banning it in your household is an exercise in futility. Instead you have to have the uncomfortable and frequent conversations with kids about the devices and their lives.

If you raised your kid on the device or used it as a distraction from the time they were a toddler it’s most likely too late anyways.

I could not agree more on the bolded. It's tricky sometimes to balance the line between parent and friend, but I truly believe that staying engaged with them is more important than it was when we were younger. If we don't talk to them, they'll get the information from somewhere and someone else that I trust a lot less.

 

[clones_jer]

Knowing people who help create, train for, and execute responses to school situations, it is usually the parents reacting who create the clusterf@ck.

Prime example, wanting a full and thorough email essentially while the situation is still ongoing is completely irrational, but commonplace.

just wanted any information between the incident time at 7:40 and 9:45 when the first email came out. Per the police they detained the suspect in "2 mins upon arrival" - so before 8:00. after that kids were evacuated to a church and brought back to the school gym TWICE before any sort of communication to parents was made.

I think you underestimate good parents and what they'd do upon getting a text from your kid saying "I love you guys if anything happens".

The "thorough" email we received was all of 6 sentences but gave the information so many people were asking for.

 

[1SEIACLONE]

Guessing he will be going to juvenile hall and become the states problem. He should anyway. That is attempted murder and should be in at least until he is 18. That would be my guess. If he is new to the school I wonder if the old school kicked him out and if they notified Pella of the kids issues or what the situation was that made him leave his old school

Never happen, at most he will go to juvenile hall for a day or two, then be either sent home or evaluated to make sure he is not a threat to himself. The charge will be some type of assault charge that the kid will be facing, and they will look at if this was a first time offense or is he a repeat offender. PCS will be worried about themselves and protecting their students and expel the kid, as long as he is no longer in school, he will not be their problem, and that is what they care about.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

Guessing he will be going to juvenile hall and become the states problem. He should anyway. That is attempted murder and should be in at least until he is 18. That would be my guess. If he is new to the school I wonder if the old school kicked him out and if they notified Pella of the kids issues or what the situation was that made him leave his old school

Attempted murder is an incredible leap to jump to for a middle school student. Especially with incredibly minor injuries and nit knowing exactly what happened.

Agree 100% that they should be removed from that school though

 

[CYdTracked]

I tend to agree with BC.

My rationale is poor parenting is the root cause of these problems, so those same poor parents (and lots of others in society) voted for lawmakers to push all those problems off to the schools to solve.

The schools have been asked to do so much that used to be the parents role. Discipline, socialization, self-esteem, et al. Scope creep. Teaching someone math or english is a much different skill set than being a therapist - which is what a lot of that scope creep resembles. I don't think its even a matter of funding really, even if you hired a ton of full time therapists and more teachers, the scope creep means there's just not enough time in the day. I can't blame the schools, given what they are asked to do and how they are allowed (or required) to do it.

The result is less focus on education and learning, meaning dumber kids, meaning lots of other societal problems. I worry about a death spiral for our society, which requires citizens with some semblance of education and knowledge.

People used to argue about 1984 vs Brave New World being more likely. Well, I think Idiocracy is taking the lead in that argument.

I can see this example just in our own neighborhood. Got 1 house where the kids basically run around without supervision all day and we rarely see their parents show up to watch their games when they are playing sports our kids are in too. Usually 1 of the grandparents brings them. I don't know the whole work situation with them, heck I am not even sure the parents are actually married to each other to be honest even though they live in the same house. But what I do know is the lack of parenting has rubbed off on their kids as the younger boy plays with the neighbor boys across the street and they have had to send him home multiple times for not behaving or saying something inappropriate to them when they asked him to stop some kind of behavior. He apparently told his dad a different story why he was told to leave and his dad apparently told him not to go back over there until the other dad appologized to him. The neighbor said neither parent ever asked him about the issue about why they told him to leave. This same boy was over playing with our kids once on a Sunday afternoon and he says something like "my mom got home from Chicago and is passed out on the couch right now." I don't know what kind of context he is using "passed out" as if that means she had a rough weekend of partying and is sleeping off a hangover or maybe she was away for something work related and was just tired. Either way he's just 1 example of parents not being involved enough and I would not be surprised if this boy is a problem at school too.

My kids may get mad at me for being a hardass parent at times but I point out that one day when they get older and look back they will thank me for being an involved parent that cares about what is going on in their lives and how they treat others. I went to a 1A school with a graduating class of 50 and there was a time from about 6th grade into probably 10th grade I was bullied to the point I hated school and if I had a really rough day it would hit me to the point I'd cry when I got home and even begged my parents to open enroll me to another school. I'm thankful my parents cared and were involved in my life and didn't immediately just over-react and just blame the school and helped me work through the tough years. My oldest daughter already has had a few days in 5th grade this fall where something happened and you can tell something was off that night. I have been able to use my experiences growing up to open up a line of communication with her that she hopefully feels comfortable talking with me so I can support her and help her through it. Teenage girls can be worse with bullying than boys are. Boys can be more physical bullies, but girls usually are emotional bullies and social media has only made that even worse in today's society.

 

[1SEIACLONE]

I disagree completely. I'll have a kid starting school in a few years and I hope they ban cell phones in school. I won't be giving her a phone that does anything more than call or text until she's over 16 either.

Kids being glued to smart phones is a massive ******* problem and we need to not let it continue, societally.

A basic call/text type of phone? I'm fine with a kid having that. But no apps or internet.

Kids do not need a phone or a smart watch at school, its nothing but a pain in the butt for everyone, when its allowed. Why does everyone think they have to be connected 24/7 these days.
At the last school I was at we tried banning them, didn't work, then purchased the Yondr pouches and it was the best thing the school did. Kids put their phone in the pouch and it magnetically is locked when they come into the school, they then unlock them as they leave for the day. Kid forgets to unlock his phone, they cannot use it that night. They worked great and we took any other phones outside the pouch.

How It Works — Yondr

Yondr uses a patented system to create phone-free spaces for artists, educators, organizations and individuals :: Lockable Phone Pouch | Cell Phone Lock Bags For Schools | Cell Phone Lock Bag | Phone Pouch Lock

www.overyondr.com

 

[BCClone]

I can see this example just in our own neighborhood. Got 1 house where the kids basically run around without supervision all day and we rarely see their parents show up to watch their games when they are playing sports our kids are in too. Usually 1 of the grandparents brings them. I don't know the whole work situation with them, heck I am not even sure the parents are actually married to each other to be honest even though they live in the same house. But what I do know is the lack of parenting has rubbed off on their kids as the younger boy plays with the neighbor boys across the street and they have had to send him home multiple times for not behaving or saying something inappropriate to them when they asked him to stop some kind of behavior. He apparently told his dad a different story why he was told to leave and his dad apparently told him not to go back over there until the other dad appologized to him. The neighbor said neither parent ever asked him about the issue about why they told him to leave. This same boy was over playing with our kids once on a Sunday afternoon and he says something like "my mom got home from Chicago and is passed out on the couch right now." I don't know what kind of context he is using "passed out" as if that means she had a rough weekend of partying and is sleeping off a hangover or maybe she was away for something work related and was just tired. Either way he's just 1 example of parents not being involved enough and I would not be surprised if this boy is a problem at school too.

My kids may get mad at me for being a hardass parent at times but I point out that one day when they get older and look back they will thank me for being an involved parent that cares about what is going on in their lives and how they treat others. I went to a 1A school with a graduating class of 50 and there was a time from about 6th grade into probably 10th grade I was bullied to the point I hated school and if I had a really rough day it would hit me to the point I'd cry when I got home and even begged my parents to open enroll me to another school. I'm thankful my parents cared and were involved in my life and didn't immediately just over-react and just blame the school and helped me work through the tough years. My oldest daughter already has had a few days in 5th grade this fall where something happened and you can tell something was off that night. I have been able to use my experiences growing up to open up a line of communication with her that she hopefully feels comfortable talking with me so I can support her and help her through it. Teenage girls can be worse with bullying than boys are. Boys can be more physical bullies, but girls usually are emotional bullies and social media has only made that even worse in today's society.

That last part is so true. I have 2 sons and one daughter. They boys would get mad at each other,but within a day or two work it out one way or another. The drama and emotional damage that the girls that were around my daughters age was unreal. I look back and see what even the girls in my class, back in the stone ages, did and it was fairly similar. I have said if I was told I had to be a parent one more time and was given a choice to raise one girl or triplet boys, I would take the boys for that reason.