Bad day for the Steven can coach crowd.

[fsanford]

Anyone that thinks Smart and Prohm are even remotely comparable has no freaking clue about basketball.

The OVC has two teams that have any history and Belmont didn't even join until 2012. If Murray State isn't competing for the conference title every year that is an absolute failure. So while Prohms record there was good it wasn't exactly anything special.

Compare that to Smart and VCU who started in the better CAA and then he transitioned them to the best high mid major conference and was still successful. He is also well known for his unique havoc style of defense he ran at VCU.

Then the teams they came into are vastly different. Smart came into a team that had just fired their coach and had been struggling. Prohm came into a consensus top 15 roster (even if there were holes you can't expect any better) and a team that had been very successful for the past few years.

Yours and others expectations were based on preseason rankings, Shaka's team was top 20.

And Shaka came into this yearloaded roster, Roach, Davis and Mack were all top 50 players, granted Mack got the boot, Shaquille Cleare was top 40, Isiah Hobbs Top 100, Banks top 50, Yancy top 80, Jarrett Allen top 20

Holy ****, they have more talent than anybody in the league, and yet they are under .500?

You were saying no clue about basketball? Explain how a coach is sub .500 with all that talent on the roster.

We have what 2 guys that were top 100?

 

[rochclone]

Mostly because the people that are constantly railing on Prohm are using Fred s a benchmark. Any rational fan should be able to see both sides of the fence but if we want to continue to be relevant in hoops we need to embrace the now and quit skewing our memory to the past.

This is not a Prohm statement but just my overall view. At Iowa State with the resources and fan support that we have I believe that the expectation should be to make the NCAA Tournament 4 out of every 5 years. That leaves a year for a rebuild understanding that most of our players are going to be 3 stars and low 4 starts and there will be an occasional miss. If a coach misses the tournament three years in a row that is absolutely unacceptable and the administration needs to acknowledge a mistake and make a change. I don't care if the Coach is Fred, Prohm, or John Wooden I would have the same position. I'm truly interested to see what others think? I understand that there will always be variables but off the top of your head what do you think the expectations should be.

 

[acgclone]

This is not a Prohm statement but just my overall view. At Iowa State with the resources and fan support that we have I believe that the expectation should be to make the NCAA Tournament 4 out of every 5 years. That leaves a year for a rebuild understanding that most of our players are going to be 3 stars and low 4 starts and there will be an occasional miss. If a coach misses the tournament three years in a row that is absolutely unacceptable and the administration needs to acknowledge a mistake and make a change. I don't care if the Coach is Fred, Prohm, or John Wooden I would have the same position. I'm truly interested to see what others think? I understand that there will always be variables but off the top of your head what do you think the expectations should be.

I would say 80% is maybe a little too high, but I agree with your sentiment. You have to have a rebuilding year occasionally.

3 out of 4 or 2/3 might be a little closer to what you can reasonably expect.

 

[Incyte]

This is not a Prohm statement but just my overall view. At Iowa State with the resources and fan support that we have I believe that the expectation should be to make the NCAA Tournament 4 out of every 5 years. That leaves a year for a rebuild understanding that most of our players are going to be 3 stars and low 4 starts and there will be an occasional miss. If a coach misses the tournament three years in a row that is absolutely unacceptable and the administration needs to acknowledge a mistake and make a change. I don't care if the Coach is Fred, Prohm, or John Wooden I would have the same position. I'm truly interested to see what others think? I understand that there will always be variables but off the top of your head what do you think the expectations should be.

Why don't you call this the Hoiberg standard while you are at it. Under your standard, Larry, Floyd, and Johnny are all bad coaches.

And what resources? We have the smallest budget in the B12 possibly, are the second choice of most in-state prospects and Iowa doesn't produce a lot of really great D1 talent. As top jobs, we would be in the lower half of the league.

 

[1976]

Wake me up when that happens. There is no way we are winning at Kstate. WV will own us again. TCU bigs will own us too, unless 3's go down the rim. Tech will beat the crap out of us. Grandpa Phil Forte is back, so Okie State is dangerous again. so how are we getting 10 wins or more if we could not even beat pathetic Texas who don't have a true PG? I hope you are right though that we will get those wins, but right now it does not look good.

We had a bad night. We had a great night at KU. Last night was a good lesson. We just need to refocus and finish the season strong. Too much talent not to.

 

[Cyclone11]

Well this is what I understand:

1) The Atlantic 10/Colonial is a much tougher conference than the Ohio Valley Conference
2) I would rather have Shaka Smart on my bench than Steve Prohm
3) Coach Prohm was left with a small window by Fred's lack of recruiting. He needed to achieve a lot with the 2015-16 squad in order to lure a grad transfer post...he finished 10-8 in the conference and beat two double-digits seeds in the tournament.
4) I know that Iowa State is improved dramatically on defense..no doubt that credit goes to Prohm.
5) I know that Iowa State's (out of bounds/specials) sets are horrendous.

What I don't understand

1) Prohm's timeout useage
2) Why when we lose the immediate reaction from one camp is that this is all Fred's fault
3) How people don't understand that an individual can have legitimate questions about a coach and still absolutely support the team.

You nailed it right there. Anybody that questions the direction of this program when thing are not going right, is seen as a ....hater maybe. If ISU wins, then most of us with legit questions as you have put above, are always waiting and salivating for the next game hoping for a lose so that we can pounce on Prohm and that mindset from those in denial is not good. We all want Prohm to succede because when he does, then ISU wins and all fans get happy, nobody is a hater here unless one was a hawkeye.

 

[discydisc]

I feel bad for Monte Morris, as him coming back when he should have declared for NBA, does not deserve this nonsense going with the team. Prohm is to blame for all this inconsistency play. Looks like Prohm does not believe in having tall players that are talented in his team, as evidently with his recruiting class of 2017. No bigs at all and you wonder why we barely get any rebounds. I also question Prohms assessment of grad transfer students. When Fred brought in a transfer, they were legit(Chris Babb, Kane,Royce,Bryce,Chris Allen,Will Clyburn etc, all them were legit not these empty tins that Prohm recruited). I hope Lard won't be a burst, as he is only one I am counting on now. Kasongo was just a plunk at Tennessee, so not much hope there. Until Prohm starts to get some height in his team, we will continue to suck until he gets fired. I hope I am wrong and have Steve here for a long time and make us legit again. I just want to stop watching this team, but they are always on TV and somehow I find watching them. The pain of watching this team suck is just too much to handle right now. Hoping for the best in the future.

Sad!

 

[CTTB78]

We have two groups of fans according to this thread (and others):
1- Blame Prohm for everything bad, and give Fred credit for everything good
2- Blame Prohm for nothing, and pass blame to Fred and the way he left
The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

I guess I'm the middle then. Thankful for Fred bringing back the program to winning ways, and supportive of CSP, assistant coaches, and the players when they pledged to come to play for Iowa State.

 

[rochclone]

The same cast "only had to play" UAB the year before.

True. That group also won a Big 12 Tournament Title and finished second in the Big 12. I don't judge an entire season by one game in March.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

This is not a Prohm statement but just my overall view. At Iowa State with the resources and fan support that we have I believe that the expectation should be to make the NCAA Tournament 4 out of every 5 years. That leaves a year for a rebuild understanding that most of our players are going to be 3 stars and low 4 starts and there will be an occasional miss. If a coach misses the tournament three years in a row that is absolutely unacceptable and the administration needs to acknowledge a mistake and make a change. I don't care if the Coach is Fred, Prohm, or John Wooden I would have the same position. I'm truly interested to see what others think? I understand that there will always be variables but off the top of your head what do you think the expectations should be.

Makeing the tournament 3-4 or 4-5 seems perfectly reasonable. Missing a year is inevitable. Our biggest obstacle for the next 1-2 years will be getting our scholly's balanced and having the right mix. Looking at last years class and this years class I think we are sitting in a pretty good spot.

 

[fsanford]

This is not a Prohm statement but just my overall view. At Iowa State with the resources and fan support that we have I believe that the expectation should be to make the NCAA Tournament 4 out of every 5 years. That leaves a year for a rebuild understanding that most of our players are going to be 3 stars and low 4 starts and there will be an occasional miss. If a coach misses the tournament three years in a row that is absolutely unacceptable and the administration needs to acknowledge a mistake and make a change. I don't care if the Coach is Fred, Prohm, or John Wooden I would have the same position. I'm truly interested to see what others think? I understand that there will always be variables but off the top of your head what do you think the expectations should be.

I just would like to see people reasonable in their judgments, of a coach.
I believe ISU makes the tourney this year.

Next year is going to be a long year, as we start to fill the void of no juniors or sophs and will play JC's and freshman. People will call for his head, based your reasonable comments, I would ask why would they do that?

Above I point out how much talent Texas has on their roster, its ridiculous, and yet people are saying that coach is be all end all. There is a reason they were top 20. But he is great and our coach and ours sucks. The guy has just not managed that roster very well this year. He has done a very poor job.

Maybe it goes with the territory some fans are less reasonable with their own and will defend another coach who is underachieving by much more

My expectation given there are no sophs or juniors to speak of on this team, is it will take 2 years to fix the roster. ISU after this year will miss the tourney next year, possibly the year after that and then be back in year 3.

I would then expect a tourney appearance every 3 out of 4 years after that because the coach will have several recruiting cycles under his belt

 

[Cyclone11]

We had a bad night. We had a great night at KU. Last night was a good lesson. We just need to refocus and finish the season strong. Too much talent not to.

1976, it seems like we have had way too many lessons this season and we ain't learning anything at all.

 

[jkclone]

Yours and others expectations were based on preseason rankings, Shaka's team was top 20.

And Shaka came into this yearloaded roster, Roach, Davis and Mack were all top 50 players, granted Mack got the boot, Shaquille Cleare was top 40, Isiah Hobbs Top 100, Banks top 50, Yancy top 80, Jarrett Allen top 20

Holy ****, they have more talent than anybody in the league, and yet they are under .500?

You were saying no clue about basketball? Explain how a coach is sub .500 with all that talent on the roster.

We have what 2 guys that were top 100?

Yeah it hasn't been a good year for him, but they are also one of the youngest teams in the country even with that talent, and we are one of the most experienced. So they had a much higher variance on what to expect. Neither coach can point to this year as a good year, but Shaka has shown much better years than Prohm has ever shown.

 

[isufbcurt]

The sugar coating of this loss is adorable. Paint it however you want, but we just lost to the worst team in the conference and one of the worst in the SEC while only having one win over a ranked opponent. This team is not very good overall but had a great game at KU. I still think we squeek into the tourney but can't imaging winning more than a game in the B12 or NCAA tourney.

To be fair Oklahoma is the worst team in the conference and Vandy just beat another NCAA tourny team (Arkansas) last night.

 

[isufbcurt]

1976, it seems like we have had way too many lessons this season and we ain't learning anything at all.

If you look back over the past 6 years you will see that same discussion, so it isn't something new.

 

[bos]

To be fair Oklahoma is the worse team in the conference and Vandy just beat another NCAA tourny team (Arkansas) last night.

Vandy and Texas really arent bad teams. They are middling right now. Honestly they remind me a bit of Freds first year. A lot of ups and downs. Never as bad as the record shows..playwise.

 

[rochclone]

Why don't you call this the Hoiberg standard while you are at it. Under your standard, Larry, Floyd, and Johnny are all bad coaches.

And what resources? We have the smallest budget in the B12 possibly, are the second choice of most in-state prospects and Iowa doesn't produce a lot of really great D1 talent. As top jobs, we would be in the lower half of the league.[/QUOTE

Our basketball budget is not the smallest in the Big 12. We are not the second choice to most in-state talent and we sure as hell shouldn't be relying on in-state talent.

Tim Floyd went to the NCAA Tournament 3 out of 4 years. He never missed the tournament 3 years in a row. Larry Eustachy never missed the tournament three years in a row. McDermott did and yet we gave him a 4th year and would have given a 5th year if Creighton hadn't taken him off our hands. Johnny Orr took over an Iowa State that was a bottomfeeder. I know that many of you believe Fred left us with nothing but the program was in a much different play when Johnny took over.

This is my expectation. I'm interested in what you think is realistic because I'm not sure making the tournament once every 3 years should be or is the expectation of this fanbase.

 

[mdk2isu]

Well this is what I understand:

1) The Atlantic 10/Colonial is a much tougher conference than the Ohio Valley Conference Agreed. But Prohm lost a total of 10 games in the conference in 4 years and was a buzzer beater away from going to the NCAA tournament twice in 4 years in a 1 bid conference.
2) I would rather have Shaka Smart on my bench than Steve Prohm Based on "hype" I would assume because the results would say Prohm has done more with less.
3) Coach Prohm was left with a small window by Fred's lack of recruiting. He needed to achieve a lot with the 2015-16 squad in order to lure a grad transfer post...he finished 10-8 in the conference and beat two double-digits seeds in the tournament. Nobody cares who you beat in the tournament. He lead the team to the Sweet 16. Plus the grad transfer post market wasn't exactly overflowing with game changer type players, or really eve
4) I know that Iowa State is improved dramatically on defense..no doubt that credit goes to Prohm. Wait, are you giving Prohm credit for something?
5) I know that Iowa State's (out of bounds/specials) sets are horrendous. How much of this is on Prohm and how much is on the players execution, or lack of? Its pretty evident to people who watch the game the players aren't always executing the offense like Prohm wants. When they don't, things suffer. Its not unreasonable to think the same could be happening with OOB plays as well.

What I don't understand

1) Prohm's timeout useage Definitely leaves something to be desired, but so does Scott Drews and it seems to work out ok for him. I think Prohm's haters place more importance on this than is necessary.
2) Why when we lose the immediate reaction from one camp is that this is all Fred's fault It's not, and 95%+ of posters recognize that.
3) How people don't understand that an individual can have legitimate questions about a coach and still absolutely support the team. There is a difference between questioning the coach and bashing the coach. You reside on the latter side of that equation.

 

[Incyte]

Yeah it hasn't been a good year for him, but they are also one of the youngest teams in the country even with that talent, and we are one of the most experienced. So they had a much higher variance on what to expect. Neither coach can point to this year as a good year, but Shaka has shown much better years than Prohm has ever shown.

What? We are going to the NCAA with a likely top half conference finish. This is a good year for Prohm. Plus, the B12 tournament and NCAA hasn't even played out. The fact you have already written off this year tells me how biased against Prohm you are. Absolutely ridiculous.

Shaka won't even be in the NIT.

 

[srjclone]

The "Bad" and "Steven" <-(weird idk if I've ever heard him called that) in this title always make my mind think of Brad Stevens