Big 12 Expansion (new thread)

[cyatheart]

The truth is KU is the drag on the conference that's in no small part responsible for the defections. By all rights they don't deserve what they're getting and the lack of reinvestment drives the point home.

this is correct, the fact that they just let that football stadium and their facilities go to hell is appalling. Everyone else did their part. Ku…nothing

 

[Cyclonepride]

I've very torn about this.

I like Memphis but we can't add just one team AND I think the PAC 12 is in just as much trouble as we were, but we've eaten up most of the good teams so if USC & Oregon go to the B1G that leaves their "Angry 10" hanging. (And if they get a bad TV deal, all bets are off)

Looking at the map posted earlier it would be nice to have four pods:
ISU, KSU, KU, OSU
UCF, WVU, UC, (MEM)
TT, TCU, BU, UH
BYU, (UCLA or ?), (AU or ASU), (Washington or ?)

That would add Tennessee, California, Washington and Arizona to the conference.
So jumping now and settling for BSU or waiting for a better deal is a tough call.

In this environment, I'd say to wait. Those teams will almost certainly be there for the taking if the PAC 12 doesn't implode, and if they do, we can get some higher quality teams from there.

 

[CycloneErik]

I wish I could understand what the hell he's trying to say (mainly the second sentence):

“The facts are there’s most likely a scenario where when we do a new deal with a makeup where we likely can’t stay at the level we’re at.”

I was expecting a "then ..." portion.

I get where he's going, but that's some awful wording.

 

[BCClone]

I'm sure I reflect the feelings of most now, just dang relieved that the B12 has expanded with the Angry 8 being at the core, remaining together. Going to the P12 with oSu made no sense to me as a K-State fan. Losing Farmeggedon to say nothing for the Ku rivalry would have been horrible. Now, we can look forward to stability, solid football, awesome basketball, and perhaps finding financials that are respectable.

Stability for about 3-4 years I’m guessing.

 

[cyIclSoneU]

In this environment, I'd say to wait. Those teams will almost certainly be there for the taking if the PAC 12 doesn't implode, and if they do, we can get some higher quality teams from there.

I think the “maybe we’ll expand more” thing has to do with TV, because we have worked with a consultant and not directly with ESPN. The consultant may have said that a new player like Amazon or Apple would need enough inventory to make getting in the game worthwhile, and that inventory might only come from 14 schools. So we keep talking and (like you said) know that Boise State and Memphis are not going anywhere and we can add them whenever we want, if we decide that we want.

 

[t-noah]

I don't disagree. The challenge is how to handle 7 - 10,000 posts per day in an efficient format. As I said before, on days like this where there is an even higher volume (already over 5,000 posts) it becomes more like a chat room than a message board

Just hire an ISU computer engineer, or a Cyclone Fanatic Tech. Problem soon solved.

 

[t-noah]

You could make the east, east and the west, west and let go of the past

East Division:
UCF
WVU
UCin
ISU
UH
KU

West Division:
BYU
TT
TCU
BU
OSU
KSU

Cant do that. Farmageddon is the longest consecutively played rivalry in college football. I do not want to be separated from a solid rival and also one of the only easily driveable road games we have left

Until KU improves at FB, why do so many want to hitch ourselves to them on pods/protected games? is the goal to guarantee one terrible network/time slot game each year and drive down our viewership numbers, when they are more important than ever?

Because we have been in a conference with KU since 1907 and they are the closest school in the conference to us. It’s like 3.5 hours from Des Moines to Lawrence.

Because we love Kansas?

All things Kansas suck

Back to reality.

 

[Itjustdoesn'tmatter]

Because we love Kansas?

Back to reality.

BTW, In my dream divisions I've swapped KSU for UH. That reduces the objections to it.

 

[t-noah]

This would not make ISU happy, methinks. But it does split Texas schools evenly, keep WU happy, and give an east/west balance.

I think if you do go to divisions, it's pretty simple. You have to keep ISU/KU/Kstate together (Call it the north) and Okie St is going to want to stay with the Tx schools so Okie St/Tech/Baylor/TCU (Call it the south) together. Then, if true, It makes no sense to send Cincinnati and WV to Tx. So you add them to the north which makes 5. Then why wouldn't you have Houston play the other Texas schools to make 5? Ok well then we have UCF and BYU. Are you gonna have a school in Orlando, Florida play in the north? Uhm, no. So there is is your 6th southern team. And then finally you have BYU who by process of elimination goes to the north.

TL;DR Prepare to go to Provo more regularly than Stillwater.

You know, a north-south split wouldn’t be terrible … except for that BYU-WVU trip. And the fact that all the Texas schools would be in the same division.

I dunno, I don’t have any better ideas, with UCF and BYU being such geographical outliers I don’t think there is a great way to split it.

I'm not sure if I understand the complexity.
I'm not saying I want this, I don't know what's best, but...
North is north: BYU ISU KU KSU UC WVU
South is south OSU TCU TT BU UH UCF

I would prefer an east/west that I posted before, but whatever. I don't get to decide.

I don’t agree with the last piece here. If you have ISU/KU/KSU/Cincy/WVU and then OSU/all the Texas schools, you’re putting UCF with group 1 and BYU with group 2, not the other way around. Any division split that is facially geographic is not going to put Provo and Morgantown in the same division.

A few reasons:
WVU will wanna be with UCF - recruits Florida heavily.
UC and UCF may want to continue playing annually like the AAC East.
BYU to WVU makes no sense to do every year.
BYU would rather be with Texas than with the “northern” schools.
There are six schools in rich recruiting states and putting UCF with the Texas schools puts five of them in the same division.

Flipping us with TCU wouldn't be too bad.

I could definitely see this happening. KSU-ISU, TCU-BU, presumably Tech-UH would be protected crossovers. I’d guess BYU-Cincy next to minimize that already laughable travel for a protected game. Then KU, OSU, WVU can argue about who gets UCF and who WVU gets.

I posted this the other day and got no love for the idea.

East Division:
UCF
WVU
UCin
ISU
UH
KU

West Division:
BYU
TT
TCU
BU
OSU
KSU

We could play 5 East games 2 West semi-annual games and two West annual games.

Have two annual Challenge games. So in this case ISU could pick KSU & BYU (for example) so we would play:

non-conference
non-conference
non-conference
TT or TCU
BU or OSU
KSU - Challenge game
BYU - Challenge game
UCF
WVU
UCin
UH
KU

If KSU want's to play both ISU and KU they could. (assuming KU picks them as one of their two)
We don't have to pick KSU or BYU. We could pick anyone in the west, as long as they pick us.

We would play at least one game in Texas every year, play KSU every year. BYU & WVU don't have to fly across the country every year. West teams get to play in Florida every 2 or 4 years depending on if they are the Challenge team. East teams get to play at least 1 game in Texas every year, if not more.

It seems like it works, but maybe there is something I'm missing?

Swap Houston for KSU.

It'd be nice to keep the remaining Big 8 schools together:

Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Oklahoma State
Cincinnati
West Virginia

BYU
Texas Tech
TCU
Baylor
Houston
UCF

The Land Grants vs the Bible Belt

That's not really how pods work... you partner with another pod each season and play a couple teams from the other two pods you are not partnered with. winners of the two pod groups play for the championship....

So if pods were:

1. ISU, KSU, KU
2. TT, HOU, OSU
3. BYU, TCU, Bay
4. UCF, WVU, Cinci

Then...

Pod 1&2 play, Pod 3&4 play (basically form a 1 yr div)

Next year

1&3, 2&4... etc.

So, you always end up with "div winners"playing a championship... but in the pod system the divisions are changing.

East - K-State, KU, Iowa State, West Virginia, Cincinnati and Central Florida
West - TCU, Baylor, TT, Houston, Oklahoma State and BYU
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
North - K-State, KU, Iowa State, West Virginia, Cincinnati and BYU
South - TCU, Baylor, TT, Houston, Oklahoma State and Central Florida

A lot of good ideas. I'm sure I missed some, but is it helpful to have these together at a quick glance?

 

[Cyforce]

East - K-State, KU, Iowa State, West Virginia, Cincinnati and Central Florida
West - TCU, Baylor, TT, Houston, Oklahoma State and BYU
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
North - K-State, KU, Iowa State, West Virginia, Cincinnati and BYU
South - TCU, Baylor, TT, Houston, Oklahoma State and Central Florida

A lot of good ideas. I'm sure I missed some, but is it helpful to have these together at a quick glance?

Division match-ups shouldn't have to jump 2 time zones. To me you tie Tech and Okie state to BYU the decide if you're sending the remaining 3 Texas schools or us in the KS schools each.

 

[t-noah]

Division match-ups shouldn't have to jump 2 time zones. To me you tie Tech and Okie state to BYU the decide if you're sending the remaining 3 Texas schools or us in the KS schools each.

Starting early are you? No I get it I think, just have to get past your 'slurring'. LOL

 

[t-noah]

BTW, In my dream divisions I've swapped KSU for UH. That reduces the objections to it.

Btw, welcome to CF! I guess this thread is a pretty good one to break in on.

 

[t-noah]

Division match-ups shouldn't have to jump 2 time zones. To me you tie Tech and Okie state to BYU the decide if you're sending the remaining 3 Texas schools or us in the KS schools each.

Whatever division, it will be in two time zones, I think. It's Fri. night.

Do you mean something like this?
East - WV, Cincinnati, Central Florida, KU, TCU/Houston, and Baylor
West - TT, Oklahoma State, BYU, I-State, K-State, Houston/ TCU
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
East - WV, Cincinnati, Central Florida, I-State, K-State, and TCU
West - TT, Oklahoma State, BYU, Kansas, Houston and Baylor

I suppose you could guarantee some rivalry games, such as ISU vs. KU, TCU vs. Baylor, KU vs. K-State, etc.

Go CYCLONES! BEAT IOWA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edit: Guess what? We are actually the Big 12 again!

And why not?
East - WV, Cincinnati, Central Florida, TCU, Houston, and Baylor
West - TT, Oklahoma State, BYU, I-State, K-State, Kansas

 

[Althetuna]

This really doesn't seem helpful.

 

[Cyclonepride]

KU athletic department in bad financial shape? I guess it stands to reason, as they're probably still paying for the last four football coaches.

 

[WhoISthis]

This really doesn't seem helpful.

He’s going for the pity invite from the BIG

 

[WhoISthis]

KU athletic department in bad financial shape? I guess it stands to reason, as they're probably still paying for the last four football coaches.

Says as much about KU than the conference Imo. It will be right there with the Pac12 and ACC. How much was KU living off OuT? Any Big 12 member their salt will stay at the level of performance.

But from KU’s perspective, they’ve been taking the conference money to subsidize their football program that they generally don’t invest in. So now they’ll have to self fund more, which hurts basketball, all while still playing in KenPom’s toughest conference

 

[NWICY]

This would not make ISU happy, methinks. But it does split Texas schools evenly, keep WU happy, and give an east/west balance.

Haven't done this to you since a WBB thread a few yrs ago.

F*CK YOU SURLY!!

 

[surly]

I'm not sure why you're offended. I wrote earlier that it would be better with ISU/K-State/Ku in the same division. Beat Iowa!

 

[t-noah]

This really doesn't seem helpful.

I was very encouraged by this article (regarding better monetary estimates for new Big 12 teams):
New-Look Big 12 Revenue Reportedly Just Shy of Current Revenue (heartlandcollegesports.com)

Estimating about 42 mil per team (vs. 47 mil with OuT). All speculation but sounds much better than the 20 mil or so per teams from other articles I've read.

The Big 12 was smart in moving quickly. It will give time for the new teams to get ready, will help with recruiting, and will fend off any further destabilization from say AAC raiding R8. Ultimately it will hopefully help with any future media contract negotiations.