Brackins or Fizer?

[Cyclone42]

Back in Fizer's junior season, a fan of one of the other Big 12 teams compiled an "all green card team". A list of outstanding foreign players in the Big 12. Fizer was on it. I took offense to that at first, saying "wait, he was born in Louisiana". Then I noticed what was listed as Fizer's home town: Krypton.

 

[Cyclonepride]

I'd have to go with Fizer, but that's no knock on Craig. On the college level, Marcus had the strength to dominate games (evidently, this didn't transfer so well to the pros when he ran into guys who could match that). He wasn't quite big enough to make an effective 4, and not a good enough ball handler to make an effective 3. Craig has a slightly better overall game, especially on the outside, and his versatility might make him a better NBA player, because he can probably play the 3 (though defense would be rough) or as an athletic 4 with his height.

 

[erikbj]

Seriously, at this point in their respective Cyclone careers, which one would you take? Most importantly...WHY?

I have been thinking about this since the day after last year's Colorado game, at CU (possibly the worst game in ISU MBB history), when I was trying to talk myself off a cliff. When was that...last January?

NOT EVEN CLOSE. Fizer = Elite 8 (should have been final four). Brackins = sniffing the NIT.

I know supporting casts are different and COACHING is not the same. Fizer was the most dominate player in college basketball that year, not taking away from Brackins because he is probably the 2nd or 3rd best player in the past decade at ISU (Jamal was pretty good too), but Fizer may have been the best player to put an ISU jersey on of all time.

 

[mj4cy]

Brackins is very good, but Fizer could dominate games. He could play good defense. He also was not far from a possible title shot.

 

[CylentButDeadly]

While Fizer was the more polished player and had better mastered his game, I do think Brackins has more upside. That's not really the debate here, so I would have to side with Fizer.

As impressive as Brackins has been over the last two years (and glimpses his frosh year), he just hasn't "wowed" me as much as Fizer did. Marcus Fizer was one of a kind. His skill set was so broad and so diverse that he really reminded you of quite a few guys, but I always thought he shared so many similarities with Charles Barkley and Karl Malone. He wasn't as athletic as Barkley (young Barkley of course) and wasn't as good of a shooter, but his tenacity on the boards and his ability to own the paint despite being a little undersized (height) made me draw the Barkley comparison. As for the Mailman, well, Fizer would always deliver. He did not have off nights, nor did Malone. Furthermore, just as Malone had Stockton, Fizer had Tinsley. His chemistry with Tinsley was almost telepathic.

So even though Brackins is a better shooter and maybe a more smooth player with perhaps a better upside, I just have never seen that killer instinct out of him that we saw in Fizer.

 

[Cydkar]

Seriously, at this point in their respective Cyclone careers, which one would you take? Most importantly...WHY?

I have been thinking about this since the day after last year's Colorado game, at CU (possibly the worst game in ISU MBB history), when I was trying to talk myself off a cliff. When was that...last January?

Fizer...zero doubt. He has an attitude that this team is lacking plus he was a flat-out a better college player than CB. I like CB as a person better though.

Fizer was completley dominant at times and has road wins against good teams on his resume. Tinsley was a factor, no doubt.

 

[DaddyMac]

Right now? Fizer and about a whole two seconds to think about it.

I think Craig will have the better NBA career. He has a better frame for the pros. And I think in the long run, he has more upside.

We'd be undefeated right now with Marcus, maybe 1 loss. Cal might be a tossup - we got killed there. But the UNI and NW games wouldn't have even been close IMO.
He had an ability to carry the team we haven't seen from CB to this point.

How many fade-aways do you recall Fizer taking? How many times can you remember CB backing a guy down or taking someone all the way to the rim? The toughness of the two doesn't even seem comparable. And I think that rubs off on teammates and sways overall team attitude.

 

[Cloner97]

Fizer all day. Big XII Champ, Elite 8

 

[enisthemenace]

Right now? Fizer and about a whole two seconds to think about it.

I think Craig will have the better NBA career. He has a better frame for the pros. And I think in the long run, he has more upside.

We'd be undefeated right now with Marcus, maybe 1 loss. Cal might be a tossup - we got killed there. But the UNI and NW games wouldn't have even been close IMO.
He had an ability to carry the team we haven't seen from CB to this point.

How many fade-aways do you recall Fizer taking? How many times can you remember CB backing a guy down or taking someone all the way to the rim? The toughness of the two doesn't even seem comparable. And I think that rubs off on teammates and sways overall team attitude.

If we had hit our FTs in two of our three loses this year, we'd be sitting with 1 loss (I saw someone put the numbers up on another thread that the '99 - '00 team shot something like 74% from the line), right now, but that's a whole other discussion.

I am not discounting Fizer, but I think many are discounting the help he had. I think it could be argued that Tinsley was more dominate that year than Fizer was, as he, too, was unstoppable at the rim (remember the "drive straight at you, then spin-move under the hoop, to finish" move?).

To me, Brackins is better in just about every facet of the game...better passer, better shooter, better ball-handler, better facing the hoop. The ONLY things Fizer had were two intagibles...raw size and physicality.

 

[JRE1975]

In their sophmore years I would go with Brackins, in their junior years, so far, clearly Fizer. In my 40 years of watching ISU basketball Fizer was the best 4 player we ever had. The only ones close are Brackins or Grayer if you consider him a 4.

The Big 12 campaign of Fizer's last year is something I hope we see again with an Iowa State player and team.

 

[enisthemenace]

Fizer all day. Big XII Champ, Elite 8

Again...Fizer did not accomplish these feats by himself. Does everyone forget Tinsley had a triple double (1 of 3 in his career) in the sweet 16 matchup against UCLA and Earl Watson (you probably also forget Earl Watson was a tremendous PG in college)? Does everyone forget Tinsley never lost to Kansas, and made Souix City Kirk his personal ***** for 2 years?

I ask two simple questions.

What did Fizer do BEFORE Tinsley came to Ames?
Does Brackins have the same compliment?

 

[DaddyMac]

If we had hit our FTs in two of our three loses this year, we'd be sitting with 1 loss (I saw someone put the numbers up on another thread that the '99 - '00 team shot something like 74% from the line), right now, but that's a whole other discussion.

I am not discounting Fizer, but I think many are discounting the help he had. I think it could be argued that Tinsley was more dominate that year than Fizer was, as he, too, was unstoppable at the rim (remember the "drive straight at you, then spin-move under the hoop, to finish" move?).

To me, Brackins is better in just about every facet of the game...better passer, better shooter, better ball-handler, better facing the hoop. The ONLY things Fizer had were two intagibles...raw size and physicality.

I'll take them. Two things this team is sorely lacking.

I get the Tinsley thing. But put him on this squad, and I still take Fizer.

And 12' in - I think Fizer is every bit the shooter CB is, maybe better. I'm not looking for a power forward to nail a 3. It's nice, but not what we need.

My take, put them 1 on 1, Fizer walks away the winner more often than not. CB has a decent mid range and outside game, but he will miss. And he has no shot at backing a guy like Fizer down. Fizer could take CB to the hole without mercy.

Show me where CB backs down a guy like Eduardo Najera, or Chris Mimms or anyone else for that matter - I'll reconsider.

 

[CYdTracked]

I'd take Fizer. You could give him the ball and he'd just muscle up a shot when you needed one badly. I don't see that kind of physical presence with Brackins and if I needed 1 basket at the end of the game I'd probably be more confident with Fizer getting that basket.

 

[cycopath25]

I'd take Fizer. You could give him the ball and he'd just muscle up a shot when you needed one badly. I don't see that kind of physical presence with Brackins and if I needed 1 basket at the end of the game I'd probably be more confident with Fizer getting that basket.

I'd rather have Paul Shirley. He was a man amongst boys!

 

[Cychl82]

no doubt fizer.....not even a question. Now who will be a better pro? In my mind thats a dumb question too as Brackins will be. Both great cyclones though!

 

[San Francisco Cy]

Again...Fizer did not accomplish these feats by himself. Does everyone forget Tinsley had a triple double (1 of 3 in his career) in the sweet 16 matchup against UCLA and Earl Watson (you probably also forget Earl Watson was a tremendous PG in college)? Does everyone forget Tinsley never lost to Kansas, and made Souix City Kirk his personal ***** for 2 years?

I ask two simple questions.

What did Fizer do BEFORE Tinsley came to Ames?
Does Brackins have the same compliment?

The triple double was actually not vs UCLA. It was one of the first conference games of the season. He was a rebound or two short against UCLA. There is no doubt that Fizer had the better supporting cast. But, he was arguably the best player in the nation that season. I don't think the same could be said about Craig this season...

 

[The_Architect]

Fizer and it's not even close IMO.

 

[CTAClone]

Two different skill sets IMO.

Fizer was dominant because he was physical inside. He was a Man amongst Boys.

Brackins isn't....if he was. Wow!!! He'd be unbelievable. Brackins game I think suits the NBA more than Fizer's. But that's a totally different subject.

 

[cyfan964]

I can't remember the actual quote from the day, but Marcus Fizer said something along the lines of, "I don't know why I get so many fouls called on me, it's not my fault I'm stronger than everyone else." If someone had the actual quote I would be forever in debt as I've wanted to frame that and put it up in my house. Anyway... IMO that answers the question. Fizer was a man playing a boys game. He dominated in every aspect of college basketball.

 

[Cydkar]

What did Fizer do BEFORE Tinsley came to Ames?

Frosh: 14.9 pts/6.7 rb
Soph: 18.0 pts/7.6 rb

Chopped liver