Bubu Suing ISU

[MeowingCows]

Full disclosure here - I have experience in the past with a former friend, a married woman who was out "with the girls", got drunk, willingly slept with a guy, and then decided to cry rape after the fact to "protect her marriage". She put that guy through hell. But because of this, I know for a fact that NOT ALL women who say they were raped were indeed raped. There was also the case of the Duke Lacrosse players, in case my anecdotal "evidence" is unconvincing.

This is why we should try people in courts of law, with real evidence and a dispassionate judge presiding, rather than determining guilt or innocence in media sources, either news or social.

If you haven't yet seen it, ESPN 30 for 30 has an excellent episode about that ordeal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYceHCDvptA

 

[Gunnerclone]

Blaming the victim and rationalizing the accused. For the victim, 1 inconsistency in her story told many times during a horrifically emotional time makes her a liar. The benefit of the doubt has to go to the woman. Sorry but I'm old-fashioned that way. And I know all too well what being in the moment feels like and how things go hay-wire with all parties.

Leath did the right thing for the most part. No reason Bubu "deserved" to play basketball at ISU though.

Fabricating evidence and lying about is not an "inconsistency". That is ****** up.

 

[ImJustKCClone]

Couldve sworn I saw court records showing they had been texting all day planning a meet up

I may be mistaken and apologize for all, but I thought the case was cell phone records showed she was asking for it. Maybe she was just asking for him to come over. Idk

There was texting prior to them meeting up that was mentioned in one of the court documents, but I don't recall the extent of the texting or the content.

 

[HGoat]

The idea that you can not consent while under the influence of alcohol is ridiculous.

Drunk sex is not tantamount to rape.

Is there a double standard here? Men are treated as potential rapists, and women as their helpless victims. If two young people get hammered and have drunken sex, he is responsible for his behaviour, but she is not responsible for hers. Even if she does say "yes" its up to him to figure out whether she means it.

To be clear, obviously someone who is passed out or near unconscious cannot consent to sexual intercourse. Men have physical strength on their side and have some extra duty to rein in disinhibitions. Some dudes really are predators, and prey on women. But in my opinion, the truth is that most drunk sex basically involves "stuff I wouldn't have done when I was sober". It used to be that this was an unfortunate learning experience and you move on. Today, she's told its a devastating trauma that's is not her fault.

In any other circumstance other than sex, if you get drunk and act like an idiot you are liable for your actions. If a woman gets hammered and acts like an idiot in public, she is liable for her actions and could be arrested. If you get wasted and get behind the wheel of a car, you are responsible for that decision as well. Why would sex be any different?
This idea "infantilizes women, strips them of there agency and treats them like victorian damsels of distress".

I'm sure I'll be labeled as a misogynist, rapist enabling, pig by some idiots like CyPhillis on here.

 

[carvers4math]

Full disclosure here - I have experience in the past with a former friend, a married woman who was out "with the girls", got drunk, willingly slept with a guy, and then decided to cry rape after the fact to "protect her marriage". She put that guy through hell. But because of this, I know for a fact that NOT ALL women who say they were raped were indeed raped. There was also the case of the Duke Lacrosse players, in case my anecdotal "evidence" is unconvincing.

This is why we should try people in courts of law, with real evidence and a dispassionate judge presiding, rather than determining guilt or innocence in media sources, either news or social.

And I have talked to literally hundreds of people, mostly women, who have been raped and never press charges in some of my previous jobs. Some of the glib comments in this thread are some of the reasons they never go to law enforcement and why so many women continue to be abused.

 

[WIB]

BuBu should be handed the keys to Iowa State for this. Was an absolute atrocity by Iowa State.

 

[ImJustKCClone]

If you haven't yet seen it, ESPN 30 for 30 has an excellent episode about that ordeal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYceHCDvptA

I have seen it.

 

[ImJustKCClone]

And I have talked to literally hundreds of people, mostly women, who have been raped and never press charges in some of my previous jobs. Some of the glib comments in this thread are some of the reasons they never go to law enforcement and why so many women continue to be abused.

Have I made glib comments?

 

[00clone]

While I know this is the standard, how many girls have ever explicitly said yes?

Mrs00 said it loudly over and over the other night, but not really until the end, so maybe I was in the wrong until that point?

 

[jbhtexas]

Perhaps a refresher on what happened may be of value...

According to the findings of Administrative Law Judge John Priester in a separate case over sexual misconduct sanctions ISU handed Palo, Cruise raped the alleged victim and left the room. Palo came into the room immediately afterward, Priester found, and had sex with the still-traumatized woman, who did not verbally consent but did not convey a lack of consent.

http://amestrib.com/news/trial-set-palo-defamation-suit

I'm just going to have to side with Leath, in that having sex with a woman who was still traumatized by a rape that occurred just a few minutes prior, and where said woman hadn't given affirmative consent to the sex, is a student code violation worthy of suspension from the MBB team...

 

[carvers4math]

Have I made glib comments?

No. But there are plenty in here to be found.

 

[MeowingCows]

And I have talked to literally hundreds of people, mostly women, who have been raped and never press charges in some of my previous jobs. Some of the glib comments in this thread are some of the reasons they never go to law enforcement and why so many women continue to be abused.

No one here has denied the existence of these issues. Questioning the legitimacy of an unproven case is not the same as denying all sexual assaults on the planet.

 

[Angie]

No, that is absolutely NOT what I said, Angie. You gave the woman a pass on bad decisions (like texting Bubu and meeting up with him) because she was drunk. Per statements made, he was also drunk and made bad decisions.

No means no. Did she say no?

I'm sorry, but it IS what you are saying. Getting drunk and meeting a friend are not a green light to two dudes tag-teaming you. Sure, she made bad decisions. Lots of them. That doesn't mean she was consenting.

Inability to consent due to intoxication means no. That's really all there is to it.

https://share.cornell.edu/education-engagement/sex-alcohol-and-clear-consent/

 

[isufbcurt]

Mrs00 said it loudly over and over the other night, but not really until the end, so maybe I was in the wrong until that point?

That was my point. Most don't explicitly say Yes, they just go with the flow.

Having someone stop the process and explicitly say "Yes I want to have sexual relations" would be a mood killer.

 

[Cyballzz]

The idea that you can not consent while under the influence of alcohol is ridiculous.

Drunk sex is not tantamount to rape.

Is there a double standard here? Men are treated as potential rapists, and women as their helpless victims. If two young people get hammered and have drunken sex, he is responsible for his behaviour, but she is not responsible for hers. Even if she does say "yes" its up to him to figure out whether she means it.

To be clear, obviously someone who is passed out or near unconscious cannot consent to sexual intercourse. Men have physical strength on their side and have some extra duty to rein in disinhibitions. Some dudes really are predators, and prey on women. But in my opinion, the truth is that most drunk sex basically involves "stuff I wouldn't have done when I was sober". It used to be that this was an unfortunate learning experience and you move on. Today, she's told its a devastating trauma that's is not her fault.

In any other circumstance other than sex, if you get drunk and act like an idiot you are liable for your actions. If a woman gets hammered and acts like an idiot in public, she is liable for her actions and could be arrested. If you get wasted and get behind the wheel of a car, you are responsible for that decision as well. Why would sex be any different?
This idea "infantilizes women, strips them of there agency and treats them like victorian damsels of distress".

I'm sure I'll be labeled as a misogynist, rapist enabling, pig by some idiots like CyPhillis on here.

 

[Angie]

Court records show she was texting him throughout the day, not just that night. So unless she was day drinking, I don't think saying she was drunk would be a good enough excuse. She was asking for it before then. If she even was drunk.

Texting someone hours in advance is "asking for it"? Just a few things:

1. You have no record of what those texts said. They are friends. (B-T-dubbs, friends rape friends.)
2. She had right up to the second of penetration to say no. Even if she had explicitly said, "Yo, Bubu, I really would like it if you and your skanky, sketchy friend would double-team me tonight" four hours earlier, it doesn't matter if she either said no or was too drunk to say yes at the time. That's the law.

 

[coolerifyoudid]

We all realize that nobody on here is actually arguing for rape, right?

 

[BoxsterCy]

So, getting drunk means that someone deserves to be raped? Getting drunk is not a criminal offense. Penetrating someone who is too drunk to consent, on the other hand, is.

More than this, I totally do not get the people boiling this down to some sort of casual couples hookup that went bad after the fact. This was not a Bubu and his ex getting together or "hooking up", it was a total out of line double team on her, not my definition of the way people like to toss around the term “hook upâ€￾. Nothing close to two drunk people having a he said she said aftermath.

 

[00clone]

Texting someone hours in advance is "asking for it"? Just a few things:

1. You have no record of what those texts said. They are friends. (B-T-dubbs, friends rape friends.)
2. She had right up to the second of penetration to say no. Even if she had explicitly said, "Yo, Bubu, I really would like it if you and your skanky, sketchy friend would double-team me tonight" four hours earlier, it doesn't matter if she either said no or was too drunk to say yes at the time. That's the law.

Not exactly sure what the law says, but an upstanding man would even go beyond that. At any point before OR during, anything along the lines of no or stop means you stop.

 

[MeowingCows]

There is a ridiculous amount of reaching arguments and utter bias in this thread.

Continue.