CPR on the td pass from Lanning to Lazard...

tazclone

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Winning quarterbacks find a way to win.We couldn't sustain drives after the first quarter. I believe the coaches were mostly at fault as evidenced by the quote that inspired this thread, but Sam didn't have a good game. There are no points awarded for yards between the Twenties and there are no stats for open receivers not thrown to..
Can you explain both the bolded?
 

heitclone

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Nope against Toledo, just kick the FG.

You want to se emultiple players breakdown over multiple plays....watch second OT. Plenty of blame to go to plenty of players there

Sure Netten blew the Toledo game but Sam also missed a wide open Wesley in the end zone. IMO that play summarizes Sam's entire career, he had a 10-15 yd gain easy if he tucks and runs, instead he sees Wesley is going to be wide open, makes the absolute 100% right decision but the pass sails just over Wesley's fingers. As a younger player, he almost certainly would have made the choice to tuck and run, even if it wasn't the best choice and we probably win. Instead, he makes what should be the right decision and it still doesnt' work out. He cant win for losing. He definitely hasn't been great but in his career, it seems like anything that can go wrong, does.
 

tazclone

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Would not say perfect, but he threw an more accurate rope the back shoulder of a receiver that can makes plays, than I have seen all year. And for some reason that was the last play we saw him participate..... Which is general theme for this thread why not give him a chance..... What do we have to lose? More than that what did we have to lose in that game???
That is ******* hilarious considering Sam has atleast three and I believe five this year and you don't throw a rope for a back shoulder pass you take a little off of it so the WR can adjust.

like I said in another thread
Lanning back shoulder throw- perfect/GREAT pass
Sam back shoulder- can't lead the WR to save his life
 

tazclone

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Sure Netten blew the Toledo game but Sam also missed a wide open Wesley in the end zone. IMO that play summarizes Sam's entire career, he had a 10-15 yd gain easy if he tucks and runs, instead he sees Wesley is going to be wide open, makes the absolute 100% right decision but the pass sails just over Wesley's fingers. As a younger player, he almost certainly would have made the choice to tuck and run, even if it wasn't the best choice and we probably win. Instead, he makes what should be the right decision and it still doesnt' work out. He cant win for losing. He definitely hasn't been great but in his career, it seems like anything that can go wrong, does.
Sam also complete three 3rd and long passes to move iSu into FG range. Lazard also dropped a pall on the one in double OT. The OL allowed pressure in under 1.5 seconds 6 out of 8 plays in 2nd OT. Bundrgae blew a block in 2nd OT. Like I said a perfect example of many players failing at different times.


I don't give a rats *** who plays QB but I remember the same conversations last year and Rohach came in and lost to KU. Then people settled down. I hope like hell Lanning is th eanswer because he is the QB of the future. I want him to get a couple of series and would be happy as hell if he scored every time he touched the ball.

I just think people are fooling them selves to think that a QB change all of a sudden makes iSu capable of beating the number three team in the country
 

klerme

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Apr 11, 2006
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Trips right and the play is to the right. It was a corner blitz and the safety rolled over so not as open as one thinks as it is a 30 yard throw across the field. No pre snap read to give the indication of a corner blitz. Pre snap read was safety help on that side go away from it. It was a great call by the defense and the WR needs to indicate the blitz verbally and either didn't or Sam didn't hear it.

The pass to Warren...really? No blame to the OL on that one...hmmmm. **** poor protection.

As to throwing WRs open...you can't be talking about Saturday because he did well. Like on Bundrage down the sideline or about half those incompletions.

Like I said, people pick 3-5 throws every game and claim Sam is awful. Every QB misses 3-5 throws per game.


On the throw to Warren, no - it was a designed mini rollout left so Bundrage could run a 12-yd Z route (break like running a square in and then break out). He had plenty of time to deliver as soon as Bundrage started the out. It was a good play call and was open. The read on the corner blitz is all about game study. Teams know he doesn't pick it up and throw toward the blitz very well - (see the KSU game last year at the end as well as the late throw to Montgomery at the end of this game the safety almost took to the house). Again, I don't put it all on Sam and thought he played decent, but between that and the fact that teams no longer worry about him running on the zone read puts this team with a small margin for error at a bigger disadvantage.
 

jbhtexas

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Oct 20, 2006
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ISU has had a problem with QBs and receivers throughout the entirety of Rhoads's tenure. Between them, they just don't consistently make enough plays to sustain drives. Drops, bad throws, bad routes, misreads, can't hold a two second block on a bubble screen, whatever.

TCU and BU make those plays. The vast majority of throws are close enough for the receiver to make a play, and most (when designed to do so) hit the receiver in stride so he can make yards after the catch. The receivers don't drop balls that are right on target. The receivers finish the tough receptions. The bigger receiver destroys the smaller DB on the bubble screen. Other teams in the Big 12 are consistent too, but not quite to the level of TCU and BU.

IMO, ISU just doesn't coach those positions well. And I'm sure talent and athleticism play into it as well. Whatever it is, it has got to be fixed. The Big 12 is about scoring. Score or perish...
 
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Beyerball

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Sam is not the same QB he was last year. It almost seems that he's not used to sitting in pocket with time to throw. Sam should be running outside pocket he's better that way. The Toledo loss really changed the entire season IMO. Kick that fg and we are 3-4 and looking at ksu, tx, WV and okie st as games to get to a bowl and the entire team plays at a diff level IMO. Now maybe we don't win 3 of those to get to a bowl but I could see winning 2. A 5 win season with every loss being to a top 25 team sans TT I think would be progress.
 

swarthmoreCY

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Here nor there
ISU has had a problem with QBs and receivers throughout the entirety of Rhoads's tenure. Between them, they just don't consistently make enough plays to sustain drives. Drops, bad throws, bad routes, misreads, can't hold a two second block on a bubble screen, whatever.

TCU and BU make those plays. The vast majority of throws are close enough for the receiver to make a play, and most (when designed to do so) hit the receiver in stride so he can make yards after the catch. The receivers don't drop balls that are right on target. The receivers finish the tough receptions. The bigger receiver destroys the smaller DB on the bubble screen. Other teams in the Big 12 are consistent too, but not quite to the level of TCU and BU.

IMO, ISU just doesn't coach those positions well. And I'm sure talent and athleticism play into it as well. Whatever it is, it has got to be fixed. The Big 12 is about scoring. Score or perish...

Yet CPR chose to run an offense that highlights them. IMO that is the wrong decision and resource allocation, but if you do go that route, higher a staff that knows it. At this point it is clear Rhoads himself may not know it well enough to do that.
 

Gunnerclone

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ISU has had a problem with QBs and receivers throughout the entirety of Rhoads's tenure. Between them, they just don't consistently make enough plays to sustain drives. Drops, bad throws, bad routes, misreads, can't hold a two second block on a bubble screen, whatever.

TCU and BU make those plays. The vast majority of throws are close enough for the receiver to make a play, and most (when designed to do so) hit the receiver in stride so he can make yards after the catch. The receivers don't drop balls that are right on target. The receivers finish the tough receptions. The bigger receiver destroys the smaller DB on the bubble screen. Other teams in the Big 12 are consistent too, but not quite to the level of TCU and BU.

IMO, ISU just doesn't coach those positions well. And I'm sure talent and athleticism play into it as well. Whatever it is, it has got to be fixed. The Big 12 is about scoring. Score or perish...

tbf we tend to massively overrate our QB's as a fanbase. Meyer, Arnaud, Jantz, Richardson. All not that good and none of them had that je ne sais quoi or one just outstanding attribute that could elevate them above their overall lack of talent. However I agree on the QB coaching/offense has been poor and there were/are multiple points in time where all of these guys just looked like they had no idea what was going on out there and I don't think it was through any fault of their own.
 

BigJ4CY

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Come one now, we've known for several years that he doesn't trust his player to make plays. JHC...every team we play tries the same thing on us at least once a quarter with our short dBs. Why we don't take advantage of out very tall WRs more throughout the game is dumbfounding.
 

Bigman38

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Disagree. iSu went to the short passing game and had success. Ryen was wide open across the middle and Sam missed him but....the next series TCU did it, iSu took the ball from the isu 7 to the TCU 45 before Montgomery got knocked on his *** and stalled the drive. The short passing game opened up the run and that is when Warren got his 21 yarder.

So what do you disagree with? One good run doesn't change the struggles in the running game. Even with the 20 yarder in the second quarter Warren had over half his 78 yards in the first quarter. They struggled mightily on the ground after the quick start.
 

SouthJerseyCy

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Maybe if we had a perfect football team, that's not a pass that should be thrown...

Maybe if AL isn't far an away our best player, that's not a pass that should be thrown...

Maybe the pass wasn't perfectly executed by the QB...

But for ISU, when AL is matched in single coverage against a smaller DB, that's a pass you throw all day long. You keep throwing it until the double him. Then you throw it to Montgomery or Bundrige on the other side.

Good teams exploit mismatches and let their players make plays. WR is about the only position where we have the advantage.
 

Bigman38

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Taz, I really appreciate these breakdowns. It makes me wonder....

I have a brilliant idea for CycloneFanatic. I think they should have a 'Film Junky' thread / article every week after games. It would take a LOT of time, but it would be amazing!!!

I would love a breakdown of each play throughout a game. Rating of each throw and how it ended up, each running play and what happened who had a key block or missed block, each defensive series including missed tackles / yards allowed after initial contact, secondary positioning / success rate of each pass attempt allowed.

I think it would really allow an objective feel to these threads about personnel discussions and REALLY up the ante on how us cyclones research the games and give us daily visitors something to take a look at. In addition, it would be great to quantify how we are doing!! Anyway, just a thought.

Someone used to start a weekly thread for just that kind of thing. Relatively technical breakdowns and discussion.

As with most things football related interest died down as the games got uglier, but it might be able to be revived.
 

Wesley

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No it is not the type of throw that should always be thrown and no you don't throw it to Lazard every play. that is what happened against iowa remember.

Let's look at the stalled drives again
Drive stalled due to Warren Fumble
-Went vertical to Lazard for 27 yards, went vertical to Bundrage in the endzone well thrown ball DB had Bundrage's rt arm
Next drive
-Richardson misses wide open Ryen- obviously the right call against the defense, Thomas run then Sam throws it away due to pressure(probably trying to go vertical)
Next Drive
- 16 yard pass to Montgomery, go vertical to Lazard and get a PI called, Sam sacked on corner blitz looking to go vertical(hmmm) and fumbles
Next drive
- 8 plays 48 yards including a 21 yard Warren run set up by the short passing game because TCU was playing over the top. Looked vertical dumped to Boesen Series stalled because Montgomery got knocked on his *** on 3rd and 3 if he makes his block that is at least a first down
Next drive
-vertical to Lazard and Sam over throws him while slightly pressured, vertical to Montogmery and got a PI called, went vertical to Bundrage who ran a bad route went incomplete, Looked vertical then dumped to Montgomery who dropped it, Looked vertical on 4th and 10 and Sam scrambled and dumped to Bundrage for 11, went vertical to Lazard in the endzone and it was busted up. good throw good play by DB
Next drive
-vertical to Montgomery who had it but safety jarred it loose, deep middle to Bundrage for 21


Went vertical at least every series and most series did it more than once. It is a drunk myth that we didn't go vertical after the first quarter

So you are saying player execution sucked for three quarters.
 

Gunnerclone

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Maybe if we had a perfect football team, that's not a pass that should be thrown...

Maybe if AL isn't far an away our best player, that's not a pass that should be thrown...

Maybe the pass wasn't perfectly executed by the QB...

But for ISU, when AL is matched in single coverage against a smaller DB, that's a pass you throw all day long. You keep throwing it until the double him. Then you throw it to Montgomery or Bundrige on the other side.

Good teams exploit mismatches and let their players make plays. WR is about the only position where we have the advantage.

Good post. I think about this a lot, it just baffles me that this coaching staff thinks they can just follow the "How to Run a CFB Program" book and be successful. I was at the point where I thought Rhoads should have just kept his trap shut but honestly he should have taken that play and just blanketed everyone with "that was great", "amazing play on both ends" "this is the future you can look forward to" and on and on. Somehow he decided to do exactly the opposite it's freaking crazy man. Just crazy.
 

Clonefan94

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Sam also complete three 3rd and long passes to move iSu into FG range. Lazard also dropped a pall on the one in double OT. The OL allowed pressure in under 1.5 seconds 6 out of 8 plays in 2nd OT. Bundrgae blew a block in 2nd OT. Like I said a perfect example of many players failing at different times.


I don't give a rats *** who plays QB but I remember the same conversations last year and Rohach came in and lost to KU. Then people settled down. I hope like hell Lanning is th eanswer because he is the QB of the future. I want him to get a couple of series and would be happy as hell if he scored every time he touched the ball.

I just think people are fooling them selves to think that a QB change all of a sudden makes iSu capable of beating the number three team in the country

All I know is that my prediction for next year is, whomever Lanning's back up is, he'll be the solution to all of ISU's problems.
 

tazclone

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So what do you disagree with? One good run doesn't change the struggles in the running game. Even with the 20 yarder in the second quarter Warren had over half his 78 yards in the first quarter. They struggled mightily on the ground after the quick start.
Disagree there weren't adjustments made. There were. iSu started taking advantage across the middle of the field when TCU was bringing the LBs and giving help over the top. TCU adjusted back and isu went back over the top. Run game walked off the field with Burton. Just like it has all season
 
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