Naz has really struggled. I like Naz and I've been a huge fan of him but he is a role player not a creator.
Hoiberg's Recruiting
- Thread starter sloaner
- Start date
Naz has really struggled. I like Naz and I've been a huge fan of him but he is a role player not a creator.
Burton isn't ever as good as people think but he also isn't really ever as bad as people think either. Watch him pass the ball. It is Royce White like. Part of the problem is people aren't expecting it. Sometimes he takes bad shots and is selfish but that usually coincides when everyone is struggling and he's trying to make something happen. Naz is still a really good player. He is different but he isn't a scrub.
The post thing is such a load of ****. We do not have a great Big but we have Young, Holden, Bowie, and Carter. All are serviceable for stretches. You don't have to play a big for 20+ minutes a game. Rotate them in and have them work their ass off. That is how we take advantage of our roster. Prohm thinks people have to either play significant minutes or nearly non existent minutes.
So Burton goes off for 29 on #1 Gonzaga and puts up 21 on #2 Kansas and hes a dumpster fire? Lol, ok, I think you need to learn the difference between sucking and being inconsistent.
Well, yeah, hes been here 5 years now and thats what hes done his entire career. Who on here is expecting him to be some breakout All-American?
I understand that. I was referring to the thread title, which is about recruiting. I have also questioned some of his in-game decisions, particularly with use of timeouts, etc. Those are good observations. CyclonePride posted in another spot about Prohm possibly trying to make the transition from more of a free-flowing style to a more disciplined style. For guys in their fourth year, that would be a tough sell, I would think.
I appreciate everyone's thoughts. I'm as disappointed as anyone with the results so far. But I'm willing to give Prohm some rope, and find out whether or not he CAN coach, because I DO think he's an excellent recruiter, and a good leader.
You just made my point for me. If you are just going to look at PPG then your argument has some serious holes.
I think the point was that maybe he would be better suited coming off the bench as an energy guy, or some other role. Maybe CSP needs to shake up the line-up?
I'm not giving up on Prohm yet. I've got my concerns, but he needs some time to show what he can do. That said, it would be a lot easier for me to be optimistic if I could figure out exactly wth his style is. He says he wants to be defense oriented but when you look at the numbers on his Murray State teams, it doesn't scream that they were defensive juggernauts. I see that we do some things better in certain areas but we also are making many of the same mistakes we were in November. He may be a good coach, but he's going up against GREAT coaches almost every night now. No matter how good he may be, he needs to get better, and that may mean beefing up his staff with some experience to help him out.
With regard to his recruiting, snagging a couple 4 stars is a great start. I'm not sure what Tech & KState are doing on the recruiting trail, but I know basically everybody else in the conference is bringing in similar or better recruits. These guys may help us hold ground, but it's not going to gain much.
I want it to work. Prohm seems like a good guy but it's hard not to be nervous. We have been very spoiled these last few years and fair or not, it's impossible not to compare him to past success. Fred was far from perfect, and many on here seem to conveniently forget that, but he won a lot and he had brought Hilton back to its glory. Those days seem like a distant memory now.
Your right they were terrible at defense. They were only the number 1 team in the conference in defensive efficiency 3 of the 4 years he was head coach at Murray. And they were terrible in defense the year he wasn't #1. They were #2!
His NBA PG could guard all 5 spots though, and the other teams didn't have an NBA player.
Sorry, couldn't resist the positive approach to combat the negative some are taking saying he won by having an NBA player his whole Murray career.
This expresses quite a bit of what I'm feeling right now. And while I'd agree that CSP hasn't historically been a defensive guru, it does seem as though he wants this team to play better on that end. And I can notice the change.....it isn't always constant, but no one can argue that this year's team plays much better defense than last year's. (Can you imagine if we still had McKat roaming the lane now?)
We have to remember that removing three future professional frontcourt players from a team that made the Sweet 16 was obviously going to have a major impact. No, Prohm hasn't replaced them with players anywhere near their level, but I have reason to suspect the talent he has coming in will be very good.
Spoiled? You betcha. Nervous? Every single game. But optimistic? I am that, and still hopeful this current group can get it together for a solid 20 minutes.
All I am saying is that at Murray State he had elite talent in a conference that was devoid of that same elite talent. If you go 21-12 at North Carolina you don't get a contract extension but rather you get fired. Why? Well because you have more talent than 13 of the other teams in your conference.
He absolutely gets credit for getting Payne, Cannan and Wiggington. But everybody in the Big 12 is going to get a Top 50-75 recruit.
Absolutely, but the results are adjusted accordingly. Prohm dominated with one NBA player, Fred had teams with multiple top talent and finished middle of the pack
Every freshman big ever recruited to Ames by Hoiberg...
(not going to count Ejim because he was a holdover via TJ from the prior era)
Godfrey - had some upside, but kicked off the team for smokin' the reefer
Railey - not very good, had some disciplinary issues, transferred
Gibson - was alright with Royce throwing him the ball, but otherwise underwhelming
Niang - okay, I will give him this one, it worked out pretty well
Tsalmpouris - I think I have seen baby giraffes with more coordination
That is it.
The lack of good, experienced upperclassmen big men to go with our good, experienced upperclassmen guards is square on Hoiberg this year.
Big men are hard to recruit and take time to develop, so even if Prohm has not exactly addressed the situation yet (as Carter looks like a bust, and we are unsure the path that Young and Lard are going to take, but they likely have more potential than any of the above save Georges), I still think we need to give him a little more time. Those two, plus some of the JUCOs are we looking at, seem to have some more potential. They might work out.
Yes, Fred plugged the gap with transfers like White, Hogue, and McKay, and had the godsend of Melvin Ejim waiting for him (we still should hang #3 by the way), and I would kill for a Daniel Edozie right now on this team (I imagine he would be starting and playing significant minutes in that be-big-and-rebound-and-defend post role), but the fact that Morris and Thomas do not have any classmates in the post of their "generation" is on Fred still.
This year.
Going forward, though, this is Prohm's program 100%.
Whatever happens this year, I imagine next year is going to be rough. I guess we'll know the year after that... if the Wigginton generation is trending upwards, then we are good. If we are struggling with LW as a sophomore or junior, well, probably time to move on.
(not going to count Ejim because he was a holdover via TJ from the prior era)
Godfrey - had some upside, but kicked off the team for smokin' the reefer
Railey - not very good, had some disciplinary issues, transferred
Gibson - was alright with Royce throwing him the ball, but otherwise underwhelming
Niang - okay, I will give him this one, it worked out pretty well
Tsalmpouris - I think I have seen baby giraffes with more coordination
That is it.
The lack of good, experienced upperclassmen big men to go with our good, experienced upperclassmen guards is square on Hoiberg this year.
Big men are hard to recruit and take time to develop, so even if Prohm has not exactly addressed the situation yet (as Carter looks like a bust, and we are unsure the path that Young and Lard are going to take, but they likely have more potential than any of the above save Georges), I still think we need to give him a little more time. Those two, plus some of the JUCOs are we looking at, seem to have some more potential. They might work out.
Yes, Fred plugged the gap with transfers like White, Hogue, and McKay, and had the godsend of Melvin Ejim waiting for him (we still should hang #3 by the way), and I would kill for a Daniel Edozie right now on this team (I imagine he would be starting and playing significant minutes in that be-big-and-rebound-and-defend post role), but the fact that Morris and Thomas do not have any classmates in the post of their "generation" is on Fred still.
This year.
Going forward, though, this is Prohm's program 100%.
Whatever happens this year, I imagine next year is going to be rough. I guess we'll know the year after that... if the Wigginton generation is trending upwards, then we are good. If we are struggling with LW as a sophomore or junior, well, probably time to move on.
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I watched Murray when Prohm coached there - teams with "no ego." I wonder how many of our current players Prohm would have chosen to recruit, rather than inherit...
Was watching some dvr's this morning of last years games. I think it boils down to the huge recruiting gap the last 2 years while transitioning from Hoiberg to Prohm.
Stating the obvious, but watching games last year, the offense was basically Morris facilitating Niang and Nader, with the occasional kickout to Matt for 3, Monte shooting or lobbing to Mckay for a dunk. What we are left with now is Morris trying to either take over himself, which is not his strong point, or facilitating to career role players now.
I think what we are left with is way too many role players who were not ready to step in as the go-to guy. Burton tries but hes just too inconsistent, Morris looked much more comfortable last year when hes not the primary scoring threat.
Exactly......this is a new role for MM, and he's still trying to fit into it. It may be a role he has decided on all by himself, as well. But you had to know this was going to happen - you lose a player like Georges, who was a once in a generation talent, and, well, it's going to be a struggle.
