How to "start over"?
- Thread starter dbronco7sc
- Start date
I don't know how things would shake out... but can we accept losing Colvin? Ejim? Phillips? Railey?
Will the fanbase be okay with that if that happened?
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I'm "writing off all mid majors"? Damn - forgot to tell myself that. :skeptical:
I'm not "writing off" anyone. Pointed out a pretty obvious fact. Our track record with mid-majors isn't the best. While we're at it, I haven't "written off" GMac - as you have.
Why again is their "body of work" always not as strong and they're always a bigger risk?
(see, I can generalize across an entire group on your behalf too)
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A - Why do you assume mass turnover of recruits and existing players. If we hire the right guy he will a) know how important it is to retain the quality recruits and players and b) be a guy that these guys will want to play for.
B - This comment absolutely baffles me..."trying to put togther decent results too soon"? What in the world are you talking about? We are in year four...that is a long time in the world of CBB. And it seems that McDermott is increasingly relying on JUCO guys the longer he has been at ISU...is that the what you expected?
1) Hire the right guy that can win over the players and recruits...a guy that they want to play for.
2) You don't need to wait another four years...turnarounds in CBB can happen pretty fast with the right coach.
3) I think you ask our existing coach to step aside on his own...if he is such a great guy he will agree to help us out. Failing that, you negotiate down his buyout with him. You then go out and get a proven coach from a major team / conference...maybe one that feels underappreciated or one that wants to coach where the fans are passionate about basketball or one that is in a big city playing 4th, 5th, 6th fiddle to a bunch of pro teams.
This happens often in transitions...you swing the pendulum from one far position to exact opposite far position.
Greg played at a non-BCS school. All the teams he's been a coach of have been non-BCS. ISU was his first BSC interaction (other than playing against BCS schools).
It's an excellent point that was eluded to earlier. I supported the hire and don't regret that, but the transition to "big-time" just has not worked for Greg.
It's an excellent point that was eluded to earlier. I supported the hire and don't regret that, but the transition to "big-time" just has not worked for Greg.
He seemed like a perfect fit. Iowa guy, took a mid major to the tournament on a few occasions and seemed genuine. Felt like a guy we were going to have around for a long time.
Like a lot of mid major coaches, he had some success at the right time and was able to jump ship for a higher paying job.
Hopefully he can find a way to right the ship but there have been no signs of that happening in the near (or distant) future.
Some can make the transition and some cannot. I think most of us believed he could when he was hired but the results have proven something different.
The fanbase must accept that this is the risk when a coach leaves or is let go.
This is the time also when JP will have to act when hiring new coach: "Here's my expectation. Here are our problems, I know it won't happen overnight, but I expect the fruit in (e.g) season 3 that we'll start having winning record. Meanwhile I expect that the team will be (1) clean from scandal and (2) play competitively. I expect support from you"
So JP has to set the standard and explain it to the fans, so fans understand.
People can accept the results not being great if there are signs of improvement. There has been NO improvement under McDermott. Paul Rhoads didn't make excuses, and he took his team to the 2nd highest # of wins in my lifetime.
A - I don't know or assume turnover will happen with certainty. If I had to bet... I would take the side of some turnover though with underclassmen or new recurits. And you're right... it's possible that we get somebody who can keep them. Though I feel it will be an undaunting task to obtain such a coach who would be able to accomplish this.
B - I think you mis-understood my original comment. I'm not talking about 4 years after he got here. I am talking about year 1. Instead of bringing in Taylor and McIntosh and the others that never made it here for more than 2 years... maybe risk a worse season than he had year 1 and try to bring in an all-star class for year 2 with the promise of playing time. Instead... each year we've been plagued by some turnover and we keep trying to salvage each of those seasons with the best available guys at that point. I am on the fence about this issue... My original comment meant... "Maybe we would have been better off sacrificing Year 1 for a great Year 2 class.. and have an okay year 3, great year 4 and so on." Does that make more sense?
I'm trying no to take a stance on the topic of this thread... just soak in everybody's thoughts.
I think you're right on point 2. I just am trying to figure out what everyone thinks is the best way to do it is.
Who is Haley?
Can certainly accept losing the recruits who are not on our roster yet. Based on Gmac's track record we will be lucky if 1 or more of the recruits is a good Big 12 player anyway.
The only two players in our program that I would be worried about losing are Colvin and Ham. SC and the guys who will be Srs next year aren't going anywhere else to play basketball.
Based on 4-years of player retention under Gmac, it does not appear we have many players on our roster who are here mainly because they love our coach or his system. I don't think we would see a mass exodus if we make a change (like we did when we hired Gmac).
Exactly. I get so tired of people trying to say GMac deserves a NINE year contract over losing Jiri for 6 games, and not having two marginal scholarships to fill in year 1. It was simply a bone-headed move by JP to not distinguish between major violations and minor impacts. None of those issues could not have been overcome in an initial five year or six year contract term. Then you can extend based on actual performance, not automatic technicalities.
GMac and his agent are probably still chuckling to this day.:yes:
My mistake... Railey.
I think we were recuriting somebody last named "Haley" as well and I mixed them up. I apologize.
How to start over? Get a good candidate(s) in mind for HC in 2010-11 right now: I think we could get this guy at a reasonable price:
Doug Wojcik
If we are looking, I hope the AD is taking notice of this guy:
There have been great coaches that have led the Tulsa Golden Hurricane basketball program -- Nolan Richardson . . . Tubby Smith . . . Bill Self -- three coaches who took the Hurricane to new levels.
Richardson led Tulsa to the 1981 NIT Championship in his first year . . . Smith guided the Hurricane to the school's first-ever NCAA "Sweet Sixt een" appearance in 1994 . . . Self took Tulsa to just five points shy of an NCAA Final Four appearance in 2000. Enter . . . Doug Wojcik. In four seasons, Wojcik has taken a nine-win team and has posted three consecutive 20+ win seasons, back-to-back 25+ win campaigns, advanced to the championship game of the 2008 and 2009 Conference USA Tournament, won the inaugural College Basketball Invitational post-season event in his third season and advanced to the NIT second round in his fourth year.
Wojcik enters his fifth season in 2009-10 having compiled an overall 81-53 career record. With those 81 victories, he ranks sixth on the school's career coaching wins list, passing the likes of both Smith and Self.
read profile:
The University of Tulsa Official Athletic Site
Why I like him:
18-4, 7-1 (Currently 1st in Conf. USA) in Conference play this season. (Looking to be dancing) "Fiery" when he has to, and is already established here in the "midwest" which would keep us right in the areas on where we like to recruit. Reminds me of records LE had before leaving Utah State.
DW Comes from a list of "winners" that coached before him, but showing even better success than they had.....at this day and time. Pretty impressive. Could this guy be a Cyclone? Make a step up to the B12? I hope so.
Doug Wojcik
If we are looking, I hope the AD is taking notice of this guy:
There have been great coaches that have led the Tulsa Golden Hurricane basketball program -- Nolan Richardson . . . Tubby Smith . . . Bill Self -- three coaches who took the Hurricane to new levels.
Richardson led Tulsa to the 1981 NIT Championship in his first year . . . Smith guided the Hurricane to the school's first-ever NCAA "Sweet Sixt een" appearance in 1994 . . . Self took Tulsa to just five points shy of an NCAA Final Four appearance in 2000. Enter . . . Doug Wojcik. In four seasons, Wojcik has taken a nine-win team and has posted three consecutive 20+ win seasons, back-to-back 25+ win campaigns, advanced to the championship game of the 2008 and 2009 Conference USA Tournament, won the inaugural College Basketball Invitational post-season event in his third season and advanced to the NIT second round in his fourth year.
Wojcik enters his fifth season in 2009-10 having compiled an overall 81-53 career record. With those 81 victories, he ranks sixth on the school's career coaching wins list, passing the likes of both Smith and Self.
read profile:
The University of Tulsa Official Athletic Site
Why I like him:
18-4, 7-1 (Currently 1st in Conf. USA) in Conference play this season. (Looking to be dancing) "Fiery" when he has to, and is already established here in the "midwest" which would keep us right in the areas on where we like to recruit. Reminds me of records LE had before leaving Utah State.
DW Comes from a list of "winners" that coached before him, but showing even better success than they had.....at this day and time. Pretty impressive. Could this guy be a Cyclone? Make a step up to the B12? I hope so.
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Fixed it for you.
Good thing Pitt didn't hear about this "BCS" connection; they never would have hired Ben Howland from Norther Arizona. Howland had zero BCS connections.
Also, good thing South Carolina didn't hear about this "BCS" connection, or they wouldn't have hired Darrin Horn from West. Kentucky last year. Horn had zero BCS connections.
Neither coach came from the "big time."
I like this guy too.
Mountain West and CUSA have some good coaches....that would like to "jump" to the B12 too. I say get someone that is showing great strides in success the past couple of years....and also getting his team dancing this year too.
Grammar police, yay!
Howland - played some pro ball overseas and was the assistant at Gonzaga while Stockton was there.
Horn - was an assistant under Crean at Marquette
No BCS connections but "better" experience than Greg has.
