ISU vs. CU postgame thread

[ajk4st8]

It amazes me how at the end of the season some people think its necessary to point out the same flaws in this team over and over. People... you can not change personel during the middle of the season. We have sucked all year.. nothing was going to change.

There is no ONE reason why we stink. We have soooo many flaws.

Lets just cheer for what good we can find during the rest of the year and let this season join the 8 of the last 11 years we havent made the NCAA.

 

[cyclonenum1]

I didn't say I am forgoing having an opinion...I said I reserve the right to change my opinion.

I agree that opinions are formed over time. I happen to think that two years with very difficult circumstances is not enough time to have a complete opinion on what any coach can or can't do. I choose to gather information over what I deem a reasonable amount of time. You seem to say that two years is reasonable for you...I disagree. It seems your mind is made up. Mine is open, and I am willing to see what Mac does in year 3 and 4. After that, if there is not significant improvement, I will be wanting change, too. It's just too early to say that right now, IMO.

The opinion comment was towards those that say "I'm not forming my opinion until after year 3 (or 4)"...not you.

My mind is not set...but I have been gathering information over the last two seasons and it is forming my opinion for me. I think it is foolish for us to "forget the last two years" or "give the coach a pass for the last two years" as many think.

I want my team to be successful...period.

 

[isucyfan]

The opinion comment was towards those that say "I'm not forming my opinion until after year 3 (or 4)"...not you.

My mind is not set...but I have been gathering information over the last two seasons and it is forming my opinion for me. I think it is foolish for us to "forget the last two years" or "give the coach a pass for the last two years" as many think.

I want my team to be successful...period.

We agree...I think. I'm not giving coach a pass, he is building his body of work from Day 1. Our differences may lie in the fact that I think he will turn it around, you seem to not think so. I could be wrong on this, but then again so could you.:wink:

 

[CycloneWanderer]

cyclone#1, I believe you should just let it go, bud. You aren't convincing anyone that your opinion is the correct one. Anyone who is paying attention has already formed their opinion and you prattling on and on about how your opinion is getting misconstrued or overly-bashed or whatever is getting old quickly. Actually, combine the tone of your messages with the fact that your forum name implies that you are the best ISU fan really seems to rub the wrong way with several people on this board. I would suggest re-evaluating the tone of some of your messages and keep in mind to try and keep future messages as non-demeaning as possible in order for your message to be taken seriously so that you do not have to post 20-30 times just to say something.

On another note, you say you want "your team" (quoted: "my team") to be successful "...period." What exactly do you mean by this? Are you implying that you would trade a good image for winning basketball, recruit criminals, cheat in order to win? what is your definition of successful?

 

[kingcy]

For me, living a long way away from Iowa, having fun is...

...having a team that is on national TV a lot because they are good (not because of who they are playing). Nothing worse than spending an entire day at a HS baseball tournament and then having to watch the ESPN bottom line for a long time at the restaurant you are eating at to finally see that your beloved Cyclones lost to the worst team in the Big 12.

...having a team in the Top 25 so I know when I open up my Sunday Sports section that their will be a box score and a small article on my team's game for me to read. Nothing worse than looking through the scores in the "midwest" section to not see ISU and realizing they probably lost and you need to look under the "far west" section because Colorado beat ISU.

Maybe you should all start to realize that it is not my fault that the Cyclones are not very good. Maybe you should direct some of your energy and attention to those that are actually responsible for the "product" that is ISU BB right now...Greg McDermott for starters.

The game was on ESPN classic yesterday, last time I checked that is a national network, unless they do have regional coverage. Newspapers are becoming a thing of the past, if you want info it is on the Internet. There are not very many Top 25 highlights in the DSM reg anymore. If you want to watch them play more buy College Game Plan.
What do you want me to do write McD and tell him how to make is team better?
The reason you get attacked so much is the way you go after McD the the program. We dont care that you rip him all the time but its the way you do it. You rip a program you hardly see play, you rip players you never have saw play. You rip a coach that you never listen to talk. You sit there are say what you think but when facts are put infront of you cannot take it.

Who cares where McD came from, every program cannot go hire a coach with BCS conference experence. Look at how many MVC coaches now coach in BCS conferences. When McD was at UNI he was taking a program that didnt have much good history to NCAA tournys at a time when the MVC was at a very high point.

 

[bellzisu]

I'm just hoping that someone will start listening and quit mis-charcterizing my comments.

I'm glad you brought up Johnny Orr! I'm well aware of the Orr era and the renaissance in ISU BB that he brought about.

When Johnny came to Ames he came from a very strong Big 10 conference and he was just 5 years removed from coaching his Michigan team to the National Championship game (a loss to the Indiana...the last undefeated team in CBB history). The three years prior to his arrival, the Cyclones had gone 36-45 with no post season play...in fact they had not been in post season play in about 40 years. After his arrival, purely because of having him as our coach, attendance rose 42%. In his first three seasons he showed continual progress...9-18...10-17...13-15...finally bringing us into post season in his fourth year.

Now let's compare McDermott. He came to Ames from the mid-major Missouri Valley Conference. 5 years prior he was in his first year at UNI after having left North Dakota State after one year at that school (so much for patience...I guess). In the three years prior to his arrival, the Cyclones had a 55-39 record with two post season appearances. Additionally they had been to the Elite 8 just 7 years earlier. His arrival caused about a 5% rise in attendance. To date his first year was 15-16 and his second year is currently 14-15. Barring some surprise, he will likely finish this year at 14-18...not what I would call progress so far.

My point is that ISU was in far worse shape when Orr came in than when McDermott came in. Additionally, Orr had far more "skins on the wall" when he came in than McDermott, and finally Orr showed continual progress after his arrival where it appears McDermott will not. Bluntly, when Orr came there were no expectations and he gave us reason to have loftier ones...when McDermott came there was a great foundation in place where expectations were pretty high (I would say canning a coach after 3 winning seasons and 2 post season appearances is a sign of this) and they seem to have been lowered under his watch.

So lets see.... It took Orr 4 years to turn ISU around. Greg is still in year 2???? Lets compare in a couple more years. I'm sick of YOU comparing this over and over and over again. Hey you don't like Greg. WE GET IT!!! YOU ARE THE MOST NEGATIVE, ANNOYING PERSON I SEE ON THIS SITE.

Greg left North Dakota after 1 year. He left for a better job and an opportunity to coach the college he played at. LIKE YOU WOULDN'T DO THE SAME. I think everyone on this board would take an opportunity like that. You included.

So we are two coaches removed and 7 years from our Elite Eight experience. OMG.... WE SHOULD BE NATIONAL CONTENDERS EVERY YEAR NOW.... There are several teams that get to the Elite Eight and never get there for a longer period then us.

Whats this great foundation that Greg got when he got here???? Ohhh your talking about Jiri and Rashon... WOW!!!! National championship calliber there. No offense to them, they are nice guys but not exactly Kansas calliber. The rest of the team left, because Wayne encouraged them too. Its been repeated, documented and well discussed on this board that Wayne wanted nothing more then TO BRING DOWN ISU BASKETBALL FOR FIRING HIM....

Take some of these and carefully unplug your computer. You write some of the most insane posts and I'm sure several people are now dumber for reading them.

 

[cyismydog]

Wayne wasn't fired because we weren't winning, it was because he wasn't JP's guy, and his teams weren't disciplined. He had the talent, but not the discipline.

 

[jbhtexas]

There is no ONE reason why we stink. We have soooo many flaws.

At this point I really don't care what you have to say about basketball...

YOU STOLE MY AVATAR! :cry: oliceman:

I had Cenex Guy first!! :tongue:

 

[CycloneErik]

It's the knee reconstruction I had in the other thread....sorry

Can I get fries with my burger? :wink:

 

[jbhtexas]

After watching this game I really think that shooting is NOT the number one thing we need to bring in. What we need is someone who can take it to the rack and finish (Stinson, Tinsley). It really seems like every other team in the conference has one, but we don't. It puts alot of pressure on teh D and will not fail you as often as relying on the jump shot.

I posted this very thing in a thread awhile back. One big reason why this type of player is needed is because he is the one that can break scoring droughts or break up opposition scoring runs. He can take it to the hole, and if not get a bucket, at least get fouled and get to the line to break the momentum of the other team. ISU really has nobody to do this, and it is a big reason why ISU has scoring droughts and gives up so many big scoring runs to the opposition.

 

[jbhtexas]

Back in your glory days thanks to cooler heads that gave Johnny Orr some time, maybe someone should check out his years 1-3 as the Head of the Mens Basketball program....? (32-50) If we just measuring wins and losses has you seem to do.

JO beat KU twice in his second year. The records during his first three years were not great, but ISU was showing signs of being able to defeat the better Big 8 teams. Those wins gave hope to the fans of better things to come. There really hasn't been such a win yet under GMac. Got close with UT, but didn't get the win, and the conference games have not looked very good this year.

 

[coachdags]

Can I get fries with my burger? :wink:

Sure....:biggrin:

 

[HITMAN]

I was in Boulder Sat. and came away with the following: It pisses me off every year CU plays lights-out against the Cyclones. Hell, it even happened back when Fizer & Tinsley were playing. Every other Big 12 team comes in and steam rolls over the Buffs, but they have our number for whatever reason. While ISU is really young, they will get better, talked to a fellow ISU Fan who is concerned about G-Mac.'s recruiting. I think he is the right coach, and a great fit, but like Football, it takes time. I hate CU......Hitman

 

[PJZ]

....and it is a big reason why ISU has scoring droughts and gives up so many big scoring runs to the opposition.

The reason we have scoring droughts is because we run no offense.

I realize no one here likes the Lickliter comparisons, but sometimes it helps with perspective. Even with a crappy team and a first-year coach, you can definitely see their offense moving around, running plays, setting (moving) screens, and getting open looks at the hoop. We do none of this.

Invariably, someone will now bring up the fact that our guard play is subpar, which is true enough. But anybody should be able to show us at least some semblance of this vaunted "system" that we have grown so accustomed to hearing about. Not every play breaks down before it even gets started and we arent missing a ton of open, easy shots, there just never seems to be anything happening.

Whats this great foundation that Greg got when he got here????

Going on about 25 or so years of pretty good basketball tradition.

No one can blame McDermott for Morgan getting fired and everyone here wants us to be successful, but ultimately, Pollard may have set the program back many years for "fixing" something that wasnt really broken in the first place..

 

[mwitt]

I will say this about our offense. As frustrating as our offense was last year (how many times did we just wind the clock down and let Mike T launch from 25 feet), I feel like we ran more successful set plays last year. There were many times that McDermott would call a timeout before the half to set up a play, and we'd get an easy bucket going into halftime. That hasn't really happened this year.

Another thing that has kind of bothered me is that it was very apparent that McDermott was coaching to the very last second last year, even when he knew we weren't going to win. This year, late in games that we know we aren't going to win, we seem to just mail it in and let the other team extend the lead (Texas Tech and Colorado are great examples). I don't know if this is just the frustration of the team, the coaches, or what.

 

[Wesley]

Is that you Wayne?

Just kidding, I wonder if Coach is too nice of a guy like Tom Davis and wants the player to figure out how to improve versus a Bobby Knight/Kelvin Sampson control freak you must do it right now my way. Wayne was a Dad to his kids. Ths season is lost as a training season. So far Purdue was the highlight. Even if we beat Mizzou or KSU or win a Big12 tournament game, the Purdue win will be the highlight. KSU has lost 4 games in a row. Mizzou has their own problems. Beating the No 5 team in KC would still be against a Tier 2 team. The best moment in the Big 12 was almost beating Texas and they were beaten by TT yesterday.

 

[kingcy]

I have been watching other teams on offense and it looks to me that ISU moves about the same as most teams. The problem is the guards are not good enough to get open, create shots, handel the ball well, and have trouble with pressure.
DG is starting to get it and it has showed the last few games he just has to finish. Peterson is playing his *** off and problay playing the best basketball he ever has but he is not gifted enough to play at this level. He is a smart player, has a good shot when open, and I am glad he is a Cyclone but he is playing way over his head.
Haluksa is doing better, playing the best basketball he ever has, and looks to be getting it more and more, but he only has so much talent and he is playing over his head. I am glad he is a Cyclone but there is only so much he can do.
Wes is being asked to do a lot and he isnt 100%, better talent around him will pay off big for him.
I think McD can get the talent to Ames. Many say he has an eye for talent and gets in on kids earily, things you have to do to get the talent to Ames when going up against KU, Texas and others. He has brought in Wes, DG, and CB in a short peiord of time. I know the assistants have a lot to do with these kids but that is their job and McD did hire them. McD is always going to watch kids play, even after they commit to ISU. I dont know how you can give all the credit to the asst coachings for bringing in good players and blame the head coach for the not so good players.

 

[scyclonekid]

A lot of posts I have read have been negative. Yes I agree the team is struggling as of now, but firing coach mac after this season or next season is not the solution. If that happens then who the heck would want to come here to coach??? and deal with a lot more seasons like we are unfortunatly having, no thanks, I am willing to give coach Mcdermott the time he deserves.

 

[Wesley]

I would think the tlaent decision was a group effort. DG is getting closer, but I still do not understnd why BP always goes to the right side. Is his left handled dribbling inadequate?
SH may be a very god shooter next year.
DG has missed more finger roll layups earlier in the season than M&Ms in a bag. However, the last two games he has improved quite a bit on his shooting t the point that he may actually become a shooting threat. He handes the ball very well although it is unorthodox ( almost like Tasheed Carr).
I still cannot figure out how CB did so well in first Big 12 game and has had a tough go since. Does he need to earn to dribble a little bit, pull up and shoot? The close in shots he does make are usually almost blocked, but they look pretty. I see an off season where his offnse will be much better. He did tie for rebound led with 7 in the last game. His biggest area for improvement is to plan ahead and gtter better position on the floor. He still will end up as very good, he just needs more practice and time.

Truly our newcomers took the brunt of this season's disappointment as they were forced into roles that they did not expect. The big loss of people over the last two years has really hurt the bball program since we had no ready replacements.

 

[Skyh13]

All I can say is, quite frankly, I hate watching this team on offense. It is THAT painful.

I expect nothing for next year, and if by some chance we improve, then maybe I'll have hope for the year after that.