Let's end some myths

[CycloneWarning]

Why do I find this statement of yours supporting Morgan extremely ironic considering what you post about McDermott?

I say McDermott loves Iowa State, that he is doing the best he can to the best of his ability. Doesn't seem to me you give him much respect for that -- or does only giving respect means a person needs to win games?

Unfortunately McDermott hasn't had much success. I hope that changes next year. If not, then it will be time for Greg McDermott to go find his fame and fortune elsewhere, and I will be the first one to wish him success.

What disrespect? Find me any of my posts where I have ever called out any player wearing an ISU uniform, or said anything that would be a personal attack on GMac.

What more do you guys want to do to Wayne Morgan? He was fired after having winning seasons every year. Let it go.

 

[jaretac]

Morgan was to ISU what Alford was to Iowa. He just didn't fit, end of discussion.

Alford won the Big 10 with all Iowa starters (was it the year before he left?), and people were still calling for his head. If a good portion or majority of the fans don't like him, you can't keep him. Even with everything thing that has happened over the past four years, almost everyone still likes McDermott, even if they don't think he can coach they still like him. A poll on this website the other day proves that.

 

[everyyard]

Is it bad that I think neither McD or Morgan are that great of coaches? Do I have to pick one to side with?

 

[everyyard]

Morgan was to ISU what Alford was to Iowa. He just didn't fit, end of discussion.

Alford won the Big 10 with all Iowa starters (was it the year before he left?), and people were still calling for his head. If a good portion or majority of the fans don't like him, you can't keep him. Even with everything thing that has happened over the past four years, almost everyone still likes McDermott, even if they don't think he can coach they still like him. A poll on this website the other day proves that.

And at Iowa State this will get you a lifetime contract. MUCH more important than winning here. Makes me ill, but it is the truth.

 

[Cyforce]

...and he couldn't control his players and allowed Stinson to repeatedly
lose control on the floor and do nothing but let him cool for
a couple minutes.! Oh, that one was true!

 

[Al_4_State]

For the record, I don't think anyone has ever said we were close to the death penalty. What has been said is that when McDermott took over the situation was similar to the death penalty. Follow?

Yes they have. There have been constant allegations that Morgan had a bunch of NCAA violations piling up. There's some evidence that Morgan behaved unethically AFTER he was fired, but that's out of the NCAA's reach.

Is it bad that I think neither McD or Morgan are that great of coaches? Do I have to pick one to side with?

Totally agree. I was all aboard for firing Morgan, but Gmac is definitely worse.

 

[JDDCy]

Not that it matters but does anyone know the McD vs Morgan head-to-head record. All I can remember is the game up at Cedar Falls where we got our butt kicked by about 30 points. Greg and Wayne got into a shouting match after Homan took out one of their guys on a break away layup. I believe it was that same season that Wayne was quoted as saying that we should not have to play UNI and Drake.

 

[khaal53]

Yes they have. There have been constant allegations that Morgan had a bunch of NCAA violations piling up. There's some evidence that Morgan behaved unethically AFTER he was fired, but that's out of the NCAA's reach.

I haven't seen that but if they did then they were wrong. You could make the case that Morgan was headed down the wrong path with the APR. If that goes uncorrected it could be devastating, but that wouldn't fall in lines with leading to the "death penalty", I don't believe.

 

[CYdTracked]

Not that it matters but does anyone know the McD vs Morgan head-to-head record. All I can remember is the game up at Cedar Falls where we got our butt kicked by about 30 points. Greg and Wayne got into a shouting match after Homan took out one of their guys on a break away layup. I believe it was that same season that Wayne was quoted as saying that we should not have to play UNI and Drake.

2003: ISU won 79-76 in Ames
2004: UNI won 99-82 in Cedar Falls (recap: Cyclones Fall to Northern Iowa - Iowa State University Athletics Official Web Site - www.CYCLONES.com - The home of Iowa State Cyclone Sports)
2005: ISU won 68-61 in Ames

 

[tazclone]

And at Iowa State this will get you a lifetime contract. MUCH more important than winning here. Makes me ill, but it is the truth.

Not factually true. I think you misunderstand GMac's contract as it has nothign to do with him being a nice guy.

It does, however, have a lot to do with the amount of money he is paid, the APR situation when he arrived, and the NCAA infraction pertaining to Jiri.

 

[Al_4_State]

I haven't seen that but if they did then they were wrong. You could make the case that Morgan was headed down the wrong path with the APR. If that goes uncorrected it could be devastating, but that wouldn't fall in lines with leading to the "death penalty", I don't believe.

It's not like everyone goes around saying it, but there have been posters from time to time who like to tell everyone else that we don't know bad it was getting under Morgan, and if he wasn't let go, we'd have been in major trouble with the NCAA. They then refuse to provide any more information or any kind of facts. They just leave it as baseless speculation.

 

[CloneIce]

Yes he did, he also had some complete duds. He was inconsistant as hell and that shows poor coaching. If you wanna talk about how good we were because of the ouliers of who we beat then Lets talk about how bad we were with the outliers of who we routinly lost to as well.

We had 04-05's losses at Xavier and at a pretty bad MO. Not bad for the road, but then thow in another loss at kst, and 2 more at home to Colorado and a horrible Nebraska team. Once again, at home. If your going to take the peaks as a measure don't be suprised when someone looks at the valleys. We wern't a better over all team than those teams we beat any more than we were a worse team than colorado, but inconsistancy is more the problem than anything.

I don't think the bad losses you listed are all actually bad losses:

Xavier was an Elite 8 team the previous year and solid in 05 as well (we beat them the previous year as well as Texas, both who made the Elite 8 that year). That was definitely not a bad loss on the road, and its pretty hard to ever categorize a loss at Columbia as a bad loss.

We did lose to Colorado and Nebraska (yuck) at home but strangely beat both on the road to make up for it.

So yeah, we did have some inconsistencies that year but not that bad. We also beat ranked OU and Texas Tech teams at home as part of that 7 game Big 12 win streaks.

 

[mikeiastat]

What team is WM coaching for now?

You're a little late to the party and real original. Is there an echo in here? Or are you just puking up the last 2 pages of the thread?

 

[Ficklone02]

OP brings up some good points unrelated to our current situation. Morgan is probably a better coach than he gets credit for.

 

[CloneIce]

Wayne nor GMac have won conference titles at ISU so this arguement doesn't hold much water. Wayne has 1 NCAA and 2 NIT appearances while GMAC has 3 NCAA appearances and a MVC tournament championship on his resume. Sick of arguing resumes because if you look at career records Greg is 280-194 (.591) while Wayne is 146-123 (.543) so even that isn't even something Wayne supporters can use in their defense.

Well, I was speaking about the false perception that Wayne was a terrible coach, not comparing Wayne and Gmac like you apparently want to. The numbers would lead any rational personal to say that Wayne was a decent coach.... certainly not great and certainly not awful.

However, you apparently want to compare Wayne and Gmac's performance (And you hilariously included Gmac's numbers before UNI when he wasn't even coaching D1 while claiming that Wayne's conference title at Long Beach State has nothing to do with the argument). So, lets just compare their Big 12 records at ISU:

Wayne 22-26 regular season

Gmac - 18-46 (less wins in 4 years than Wayne had in 3 years).

Big 12 tourament:

Wayne 2-3

GM 0-3

 

[Ficklone02]

How tall is he?

How tall are you?

 

[CloneIce]

OP brings up some good points unrelated to our current situation. Morgan is probably a better coach than he gets credit for.

The facts say that you are correct. Decent coach. No Bill Self, but not a bad coach either.

However, many will ignore the facts and just say that Wayne was a bad coach because we had bad losses with him as our coach (which of course we have had with every head coach, even Larry).

 

[CloneIce]

Wayne is not a terrible coach. Terrible coaches do not win conference championships, which Wayne did.

QUOTE]

Not exactly true. If you can recruit 5 Marcus Fizers you don't have to coach a lick and you'll do pretty darn well in the conference. I think that it was somewhere inbetween, but His gameday adjustments and coaching were non existant. How else could a Neb team exploit us so easily in 04 and teams like baylor in o5 do the same.

If a coach can recruit 5 Marcus Fizer's and do pretty darn well in conference, than he is certainly not a terrible coach by my definition.

 

[CloneIce]

...and he couldn't control his players and allowed Stinson to repeatedly
lose control on the floor and do nothing but let him cool for
a couple minutes.! Oh, that one was true!

Yes... and Stinson was still our most successful and just plain best guard we have had since Jamaal Tinsley. I would take an at times out of control Curtis Stinson over any guard we have had recently.

 

[mikeiastat]

I don't think the bad losses you listed are all actually bad losses:

Xavier was an Elite 8 team the previous year and solid in 05 as well (we beat them the previous year as well as Texas, both who made the Elite 8 that year). That was definitely not a bad loss on the road, and its pretty hard to ever categorize a loss at Columbia as a bad loss.

So, now the previous year makes them a good loss? Okay, you're call I guess, they just flat out were not good the year after their elite 8. They wouldn't sniff the CBI if it were 50 teams.

We did lose to Colorado and Nebraska (yuck) at home but strangely beat both on the road to make up for it.

Okay so now beating cupcakes on the road makes up for looking like a joke against them at home. We were supposed to beat them on the road. Not a big deal here. At least make some sense. We were also supposed to beat them at home. They were true cupcakes.

So yeah, we did have some inconsistencies that year but not that bad. We also beat ranked OU and Texas Tech teams at home as part of that 7 game Big 12 win streaks.

Not that bad. Fully capable of winning against top 25 tallent and often losing against teams that aren't even in the top half of all the NCAA Div 1 teams? Not that inconsistant. Are you high? Not to mention that the losses came late in the season and the wins came all over the place doesn't exactly scream growth and progress.

Now it might be a coincidence that we won the last game of the year, and kept it very close against some of the best teams in the country late in the season, but at least it gives some evidence towards progress being made throughout the year. And the point remains we competed at a very high level this year seem to be working hard to build a consistant foundation, even with the defections. We beat the teams we were supposed to and only once got over the hump to beat someone that we weren't. But we didn't look like fools against anyone all year long.

I don't think we have lost at home to anyone that won't be in the top half of the bracket. and even our 3 worst losses, all on the road or neutral court, are not very bad at all. Each were in the top 1/3 of the NCAA easily/and or stand a chance of playing in the post season.