Malik Monk (friendly reminder that this thread is 2 years old)
- Thread starter Cyclonesince78
- Start date
I won't pretend to know how that happened but Fred has simply gotten that type of talent from other places. Fred has had a lot more success getting talent to Ames than McDermott did and he's about 100 times the coach he was.
I'm not blaming Fred at all but you don't know that there aren't more factors than time. I would agree that it's probably the primary reason.
Yeah, I want Fred to stop recruiting top 25 guys. I want him to recruit guys in the range of Matt Thomas and Clayton Custer. But I want them to be better than those guys and be immediate impact guys.
We whiffed on quite a few of them from the class of 2013. Too lazy to look them all up. And we were in the running for almost all of them.
Or maybe it was class of 2014. Can't remember now. The class with Abu Malik, etc etc
I don't think it's 2013. We got Morris and Thomas who were our initial targets I think.
And 2014 was last year..... which obviously Fred had an incredibly good chance at Vaughn which really is an accomplishment. Malik was last year as well. As was Cunningham (who we backed off I believe to go for Vaughn), Ellenson maybe. But if you really want to say that Fred has been whiffing on top tier national recruits for the 1 year he has had a realistic chance, then I guess sure you can say that. There are many reasons for that and they are almost all positive.
Here's our target list for 2013. The highest we targeted was #37 and there was not a whole lot of buzz with him. We hit on Morris and Thomas relatively early. These are players listed with "any interest at all" for ISU.
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I don't think it's 2013. We got Morris and Thomas who were our initial targets I think.
And 2014 was last year..... which obviously Fred had an incredibly good chance at Vaughn which really is an accomplishment. Malik was last year as well. As was Cunningham (who we backed off I believe to go for Vaughn), Ellenson maybe. But if you really want to say that Fred has been whiffing on top tier national recruits for the 1 year he has had a realistic chance, then I guess sure you can say that. There are many reasons for that and they are almost all positive.
Here's our target list for 2013. The highest we targeted was #37 and there was not a whole lot of buzz with him. We hit on Morris and Thomas relatively early. These are players listed with "any interest at all" for ISU.
It'd be nice if we got the McKay kid.
I don't think it's 2013. We got Morris and Thomas who were our initial targets I think.
And 2014 was last year..... which obviously Fred had an incredibly good chance at Vaughn which really is an accomplishment. Malik was last year as well. As was Cunningham (who we backed off I believe to go for Vaughn), Ellenson maybe. But if you really want to say that Fred has been whiffing on top tier national recruits for the 1 year he has had a realistic chance, then I guess sure you can say that. There are many reasons for that and they are almost all positive.
Here's our target list for 2013. The highest we targeted was #37 and there was not a whole lot of buzz with him. We hit on Morris and Thomas relatively early. These are players listed with "any interest at all" for ISU.
You are right. It was 2014. Who was the 4 star kid from Detroit area? I really thought we had a good shot with him but his name escapes me now. We were in on a decent amt of blue chippers last year. Including Vaughn.
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I think our HS recruiting woes are due to several factors:
1. Strategy- clearly we've decided to target only high level blue chip players (usually ranked top 25). Competition for them is ALWAYS going to be stiff, but especially when you're the new kid on the block, competing against blue bloods, or the occasional home state school like Arkansas. When you're putting all your eggs into the top-20 basket, you're going to come away empty handed more times than not if you're ISU. Not saying I blame Fred, but this strategy doesn't lend itself to a high close ratio.
2. Staff- Like it or not, Cornell Mann is the only coach with a verified track record of landing HS recruits, and he's by no means known as a "great recruiter". When a spot on the staff opened up, Fred filled it with another young guy with no ties, or recruiting track record. Overall, it's working, so I trust Fred knows what he's doing.
3. Location- Obviously this isn't rocket science. Ames/ISU are difficult to recruit to. Always has been, and always will be. It's not as difficult as football, because at least many of the great college b-ball players also come from cold climates, but they also usually come from urban areas, and Ames is a stretch for many of them.
4. Fred to the NBA rumors. This could be considered a good thing by some, but I'm sure it hurts when going against some of the big boys.
5. Transfer-U. Clearly an advantage when landing a transfer, but could be a disadvantage for HS kids who are looking at us. Probably not top 20 guys who are also considering Kentucky or KU, because obviously those schools will over recruit you too. No top 10 team is going to sit around and hope that you develop. Can't blame Fred for over-recruiting, as it needs to be done, but I'm sure it hurts.
Overall, Fred is getting more talent than we've ever had before, or at least more complete teams than we've typically had. The results speak for themselves, so don't take my post as me being down on Fred.
It is what it is.
We've decided to recruit very high level HS recruits and then fill any misses with transfers.
I'm not even sure we would target a guy like Custer or Thomas at this point. Fred seems to want 1 & done types, or transfers/Jucos that have the maturity and skill set to produce at a proven level.
1. Strategy- clearly we've decided to target only high level blue chip players (usually ranked top 25). Competition for them is ALWAYS going to be stiff, but especially when you're the new kid on the block, competing against blue bloods, or the occasional home state school like Arkansas. When you're putting all your eggs into the top-20 basket, you're going to come away empty handed more times than not if you're ISU. Not saying I blame Fred, but this strategy doesn't lend itself to a high close ratio.
2. Staff- Like it or not, Cornell Mann is the only coach with a verified track record of landing HS recruits, and he's by no means known as a "great recruiter". When a spot on the staff opened up, Fred filled it with another young guy with no ties, or recruiting track record. Overall, it's working, so I trust Fred knows what he's doing.
3. Location- Obviously this isn't rocket science. Ames/ISU are difficult to recruit to. Always has been, and always will be. It's not as difficult as football, because at least many of the great college b-ball players also come from cold climates, but they also usually come from urban areas, and Ames is a stretch for many of them.
4. Fred to the NBA rumors. This could be considered a good thing by some, but I'm sure it hurts when going against some of the big boys.
5. Transfer-U. Clearly an advantage when landing a transfer, but could be a disadvantage for HS kids who are looking at us. Probably not top 20 guys who are also considering Kentucky or KU, because obviously those schools will over recruit you too. No top 10 team is going to sit around and hope that you develop. Can't blame Fred for over-recruiting, as it needs to be done, but I'm sure it hurts.
Overall, Fred is getting more talent than we've ever had before, or at least more complete teams than we've typically had. The results speak for themselves, so don't take my post as me being down on Fred.
It is what it is.
We've decided to recruit very high level HS recruits and then fill any misses with transfers.
I'm not even sure we would target a guy like Custer or Thomas at this point. Fred seems to want 1 & done types, or transfers/Jucos that have the maturity and skill set to produce at a proven level.
Emory U. did exactly that looking at how well a school converts talent (defined by recruiting rating) to the Draft. ISU does pretty well. So does Kansas. I agree that this number should be more relevant as it suggests either playing time and visability are increased or development at a particular school.https://scholarblogs.emory.edu/esma...lent-into-nba-draft-picks-ranking-the-big-12/
don't want to hijack the Monk thread, but Johnson is a guy I've been monitoring all year. I wanted him badly out of high school. He's hardly got any minutes at Louisville this year. maybe they'll look to get out after the year is over. His mom was a big time player and was very active in his recruitment.
Don't buy the location part...Kansas obviously has the tradition, but they also have the same geographic challenge we do. I'm not saying Ames vs. a metro is a plus, but it is not as big of factor as some of the other points you mentioned.
KU is about the same time from Kansas City as ISU is to Des Moines. I'd say it's in a better location than ISU is as far as a big city nearby is concerned.
the other day I was racing my mazda miata against a corvette, porsche and ferrari. I was really having some racing woes.
