Messingham & Wells switching coaching positions

[Cyclonestate78]

Great, now we're going to suck at TE. Wells is the weak link in our coaching staff IMO.:no:

That is a huge leap. A coach can only do so much and then it is up to the players to go out and make plays.

Wells coached both WR's and TE's in the past. Maybe the guy is a better fit with the TE's and CPR felt that Messingham had done such an outstanding job with the TE's that he wanted to give him the opportunity to work with our WR's? Who knows. Sometimes a simple switch like this can actually benefit both groups.

 

[Omaha Cy]

Guys, I think there's one thing that real obvious here......

I noticed the last couple years the ISU receivers have become pretty good blockers out on the perimeter....especially with those bubble screen. Remember back to 07 and 08 when those plays went for NO YARDS quite often. Now at least the Clones could spring em for 5-7 yards frequently, because the receiver could engage and lock on his man long enough for the play to develop.

Wells did seem to improve the group in that aspect.

I think we can all agree that a change of some sort was needed, and it appears Wells is more effective when it comes to teaching blocking out in space.

 

[FootballinTexas]

Seems to me this means one of them wasn't doing their job well (assume Wells) and should be released instead of just moving. Obviously I have no clue what it really means so will trust the coaches.

It seems like we should have released the OL coach also if your take on it is correct.

Go back and look at the videos from fall camp last season. You will see Wells working the WR very hard in the ball security drills and in the passing drills. It lies on the coach to get the guys ready to play. Come game time, it's all about the player's execution. CPR has always said, you prepare in practice and execute the plan in games. Coaches coach during the game. Execution lies in the "hands" of the players. Not saying he wasn't doing a good job because I don't know why the change occurred. However, I do know that WR's were not catching the balls and routes were bad. Wells did start as a GA/TE's coach at OU. Maybe he is more comfortable there. Maybe without a senior like Franklin...the TE's need more coaching. I think with a young group, if Wells was the main issue he would have been released.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

Guys, I think there's one thing that real obvious here......

I noticed the last couple years the ISU receivers have become pretty good blockers out on the perimeter....especially with those bubble screen. Remember back to 07 and 08 when those plays went for NO YARDS quite often. Now at least the Clones could spring em for 5-7 yards frequently, because the receiver could engage and lock on his man long enough for the play to develop.

Wells did seem to improve the group in that aspect.

I think we can all agree that a change of some sort was needed, and it appears Wells is more effective when it comes to teaching blocking out in space.

True. This move could have a positive effect with both groups. No reason to think anything other then that CPR believes this move will benefit everyone involved.

 

[1100011CS]

It seems like we should have released the OL coach also if your take on it is correct.

Go back and look at the videos from fall camp last season. You will see Wells working the WR very hard in the ball security drills and in the passing drills. It lies on the coach to get the guys ready to play. Come game time, it's all about the player's execution. CPR has always said, you prepare in practice and execute the plan in games. Coaches coach during the game. Execution lies in the "hands" of the players. Not saying he wasn't doing a good job because I don't know why the change occurred. However, I do know that WR's were not catching the balls and routes were bad. Wells did start as a GA/TE's coach at OU. Maybe he is more comfortable there. Maybe without a senior like Franklin...the TE's need more coaching. I think with a young group, if Wells was the main issue he would have been released.

Did the OL and DL coaches switch too?

 

[Cyclonestate78]

I was kind of surprised to hear a few posters question CPR and his willingness to cut a coach loose that wasn't getting the job done. IMO when you listen to CPR talk about the program, his goals for the program, and just how competitive the world of college football is.... Well... he doesn't seem like the kind of guy that is going to keep someone around that isn't getting the job done. If he thought the TE's would take a step back under wells then I have 100% confidence that we would be looking for a new asst. coach right now. Since we are not looking for a new asst. coach right now that tells me all I need to know. CPR is one hell of a nice guy but he isn't going to sacrifice the good of the program overall just to keep a guy on his staff because he is afraid to can him.

 

[jbhtexas]

It seems like we should have released the OL coach also if your take on it is correct.

Go back and look at the videos from fall camp last season. You will see Wells working the WR very hard in the ball security drills and in the passing drills. It lies on the coach to get the guys ready to play. Come game time, it's all about the player's execution. CPR has always said, you prepare in practice and execute the plan in games. Coaches coach during the game. Execution lies in the "hands" of the players.

He may have been working them hard, but that doesn't mean he was working them in a manner that will teach them to use their skills during gametime. Under pressure, people resort to instinct, even if they "know" to do something else. Execution under pressure relies on preparedness, and preparedness relies on getting players to transfer what they "know" to do to become their instinctive reaction or method. This is not trivial.

If it is just one or two players in a group that aren't getting it, that's one thing. If the group as a whole does not progress, it's time to review the methods of preparation.

 

[Wesley]

Guys, I think there's one thing that real obvious here......

I noticed the last couple years the ISU receivers have become pretty good blockers out on the perimeter....especially with those bubble screen. Remember back to 07 and 08 when those plays went for NO YARDS quite often. Now at least the Clones could spring em for 5-7 yards frequently, because the receiver could engage and lock on his man long enough for the play to develop.

Wells did seem to improve the group in that aspect.

I think we can all agree that a change of some sort was needed, and it appears Wells is more effective when it comes to teaching blocking out in space.

Yeah, put that down in the resume - Good at teaching blocking in SPACE.

 

[CycloneErik]

He may have been working them hard, but that doesn't mean he was working them in a manner that will teach them to use their skills during gametime. Under pressure, people resort to instinct, even if they "know" to do something else. Execution under pressure relies on preparedness, and preparedness relies on getting players to transfer what they "know" to do to become their instinctive reaction or method. This is not trivial.

If it is just one or two players in a group that aren't getting it, that's one thing. If the group as a whole does not progress, it's time to review the methods of preparation.

Exactly. It doesn't matter how hard you work if your methods aren't producing. Well, maybe it does, since it would drastically slow their development.

Basically, Wells didn't get it done with the WRs overall, and it was painfully obvious with our passing game that never took off. Maybe this is a good move for him.

 

[FootballinTexas]

He may have been working them hard, but that doesn't mean he was working them in a manner that will teach them to use their skills during gametime. Under pressure, people resort to instinct, even if they "know" to do something else. Execution under pressure relies on preparedness, and preparedness relies on getting players to transfer what they "know" to do to become their instinctive reaction or method. This is not trivial.

If it is just one or two players in a group that aren't getting it, that's one thing. If the group as a whole does not progress, it's time to review the methods of preparation.

"Instinct" is a learned behavior. Its obvious that he is not teaching them to drop passes or run crappy routes. If that's their instinctive behavior they are not D1 football players. And remember, we had some if these issues before Wells got here. This crap isnt new at ISU.

These are major college athletes we are talking about here. They would not be here if
they didn't know how to use their skills during gametime. Plus, this is not Jr. High football where you have to teach a kid how to catch or throw or block. They should already know how to do that. These coaches just "coach up" them to use those skills at
a higher level.

Ball security, route running, playmaking....shouldn't we expect that CPR is only going to scholarship guys that have these abilities at the WR position? If the player keeps resorting back to "bad instincts" under pressure in a game....he's probably not a player or a good learner.

 

[Yes13]

One thing with this move, before the coaching switch we were all expecting the recievers to take a step forward while the TEs would take a step back with losing Franklin. If this does happen are we all gonna blame Wells for the TEs not being as good this year? Is Messingham the best coach ever if the recievers improve? I think is a tough position for Wells.

 

[Yes13]

What is there to help with? There's no way we'll get Dvario Montgomery.

Party pooper.

I think we are looking at him at DE anyway.

 

[ty4cy90]

I'm in a scholarship class and CPR came and talked to us and mentioned this situation without directly saying which coaches were involved. He said it's been a very positive move for both coaches and it sounded like it's working out well. I don't think it means either one was doing a poor job, just that you may have the right people but you also have to place them in the right positions to be 100 percent effective.

 

[Tre4ISU]

All of this talk of perhaps the TEs not being as good because of coaching is very valid, HOWEVA, in this offense, I will take our TEs being marginal if it means our receivers are as good as Franklin every year. Basically, if the above happens, you will lose production from one person but gain it in at least 3 guys. I don't think that is what will happen, but if it were to, we are better off.

 

[CycloneErik]

"Instinct" is a learned behavior. Its obvious that he is not teaching them to drop passes or run crappy routes. If that's their instinctive behavior they are not D1 football players. And remember, we had some if these issues before Wells got here. This crap isnt new at ISU.

These are major college athletes we are talking about here. They would not be here if
they didn't know how to use their skills during gametime. Plus, this is not Jr. High football where you have to teach a kid how to catch or throw or block. They should already know how to do that. These coaches just "coach up" them to use those skills at
a higher level.

Ball security, route running, playmaking....shouldn't we expect that CPR is only going to scholarship guys that have these abilities at the WR position? If the player keeps resorting back to "bad instincts" under pressure in a game....he's probably not a player or a good learner.

If they all demonstrate it, then they are all bad learners, or they have a bad teacher?

At some point, there's a common denominator.

 

[jbhtexas]

These are major college athletes we are talking about here. They would not be here if they didn't know how to use their skills during gametime. Plus, this is not Jr. High football where you have to teach a kid how to catch or throw or block. They should already know how to do that. These coaches just "coach up" them to use those skills at a higher level.

So, you are saying a high school player coming into college has already been taught every skill required to gain separation when running a route against a BCS-level receiver, and it's just a matter of tweaking those skills for BCS? Or that a high school player should have all the skills necessary for holding on to a ball after getting slammed by a BCS-level corner or safety? Interesting...

I'd say most of the high school receivers who are good enough to play BCS ball simply use their athletic ability and run away from their defenders most of the time, and rarely have to fight off a corner to get free. The ones who actually have the skill set to fight off a BCS-level defender end up at OU, UT, and the like, not ISU.

Right now, ISU is getting the best players they can, it appears that those players need improvement in their skill sets. Until ISU is winning 9 games a year and walking out with a handful 4-* and 5-* recruits every year, the coaches better be up to the task of imparting those skills.

 

[CycloneErik]

So, you are saying a high school player coming into college has already been taught every skill required to gain separation when running a route against a BCS-level receiver, and it's just a matter of tweaking those skills for BCS? Or that a high school player should have all the skills necessary for holding on to a ball after getting slammed by a BCS-level corner or safety? Interesting...

I'd say most of the high school receivers who are good enough to play BCS ball simply use their athletic ability and run away from their defenders most of the time, and rarely have to fight off a corner to get free. The ones who actually have the skill set to fight off a BCS-level defender end up at OU, UT, and the like, not ISU.

Right now, ISU is getting the best players they can, it appears that those players need improvement in their skill sets. Until ISU is winning 9 games a year and walking out with a handful 4-* and 5-* recruits every year, the coaches better be up to the task of imparting those skills.

Just because his version eliminates coaching from the equation doesn't mean that we point the finger at less-successful coaches. Or does it? Or does it mean that we wouldn't need guys coaching those positions anyway, so that whole enterprise is a waste of money that we could spend elsewhere?

Or we need someone that gets these skills and such across to the guys he coaches.

I don't know. I'm feeling all bamboozled now.

 

[FootballinTexas]

[/B]

If they all demonstrate it, then they are all bad learners, or they have a bad teacher?

At some point, there's a common denominator.

Crappy recruiting by the old staff?

The guys brought in by this staff that played were Lenz and Reynolds. Both did pretty decent jobs last season at their spots. Lenz was good, Reynolds could have been better. The CO game was average for him. The TE was the leading receiver but a lot of things factored into that....pass protection breaking down, shorter quicker routes, chemistry with the room mate.

Look at the big picture, we were 10th in passing, 11th in total offense, 11th in scoring
offense, 8th in rushing, 9th in receiving offense. All of this can't be contributed to Coach Wells not doing a good job with the receivers. We were 26 receptions behind CO who was 8th. Did the WR's drop that many or screw up that many routes? If they did........Wow!

 

[CycloneErik]

Crappy recruiting by the old staff?

The guys brought in by this staff that played were Lenz and Reynolds. Both did pretty decent jobs last season at their spots. Lenz was good, Reynolds could have been better. The CO game was average for him. The TE was the leading receiver but a lot of things factored into that....pass protection breaking down, shorter quicker routes, chemistry with the room mate.

Look at the big picture, we were 10th in passing, 11th in total offense, 11th in scoring
offense, 8th in rushing, 9th in receiving offense. All of this can't be contributed to Coach Wells not doing a good job with the receivers. We were 26 receptions behind CO who was 8th. Did the WR's drop that many or screw up that many routes? If they did........Wow!

I'm not a fan of anything related to our passing game last year. The WRs aren't the only symptom, but they sure didn't help at all. Since it didn't seem to matter who was out there in terms of who actually got open or who could catch the ball, I'd say that their coach would have some real questions to answer.

If we want to say that everyone on the offensive side left a lot of questions to be answered, I don't have a problem with that, either. But I think the WRs were particularly poor.

 

[nate42smith]

Despite what people may think about this change, it most definitely signifies a demotion of sorts for Coach Wells and a promotion for Messingham. It is commonly understood among the collegiate coaching ranks that the TE coaching position is low man on the totum poll when it comes to positional coaches. Often, on lower levels of college football, this is the position that is most likely to be filled by a GA or another entry level coach. The reasoning for this is very simple, as the TE coach is essentially coaching a position that has oversight from two other position coaches. Often, the Offensive Line coach will oversee the TE's in group blocking drills, and the WR Coach will oversee TE's during group passing drills. Regardless of whether or not you like/dislike the move, this change is most definitely viewed as a demotion for Wells in the eyes of the coaching staff and people who are in the know within the program.