Mixed signals from Rhoads. What do they mean?

[psychlone99]

Its not being a quitter IMO. You understand you aren't fit for a position and so you move. Mess is a good position coach and he should be just that. A good coach understands. I haven't done too much coaching in my life, just a year and it was only golf but when players were not hitting the ball well when I was telling them to do something, I looked to another coach for another opinion.

I didn't intend for this thread to be another pile-on thread, but I have to ask... What is the evidence of this?

 

[SpokaneCY]

I don't think he's just now realizing, I think he though Mess would be much improved this season, similar to how he improved last season. I think he though bringing in Coach K would greatly help our running game, and it hasn't yet.

I may have missed Mess' improvement during last season?

 

[Luth4Cy]

I may have missed Mess' improvement during last season?

I at least thought he improved some. To me our play calling was much better against West Virginia and Tulsa (yes, I think the play calling was decent in the bowl game) than it was against Oklahoma State and Texas Tech.

 

[UNIGuy4Cy]

Texas Tech before Leach arrived was an absolute graveyard for talent

 

[tyler24]

I didn't intend for this thread to be another pile-on thread, but I have to ask... What is the evidence of this?

When he was the tight ends coach that position played well and then he got promoted to the wide receivers and they definitely improved from when Wells was coaching them.

 

[psychlone99]

When he was the tight ends coach that position played well and then he got promoted to the wide receivers and they definitely improved from when Wells was coaching them.

Fair enough. I was thinking more in terms of his current position group- the quarterbacks.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Just before SR got the nod last year CPR consistently said SR wasn't ready until the one magical day when we WAS ready. Color me skeptical that 1 day last year SR crossed that magical "ready" line. If Rohach is your 2nd string QB but he is NOT prepared to play a single snap than there are issues with our program.

I agree with you completely. His reasoning for SR getting in was because he threw well in warm-ups IIRC. I'm sorry but I don't buy that.

 

[cyatheart]

People are on Mess about last night, I actually thought last night he did as good as could be expected, he had no chance last night. Frist he isn't a very good OC in the first placed, add to that a gimp QB, an O line that is patched together with duct tape and last night was to be expected. Mess dug his grave with his incompetency last year and against UNI.

Can't get rid of him now in my opinion, I don't think there is any other option than playing this year out, developing guys, and then getting the best OC you can afford in the offseason. Why panic, replace him with someone else that won't do any better to try and win a few games in a season that is already lost? Last thing I want is to replace him with some other guy who can't do it. We need someone that is qualified. Can't do it cheap, can't make a mistake, can't be an internal guy, Rhoads job and this program depend on the success of the next OC. Doesn't matter if the guy is here long term or not, it needs to be a guy who has shown they can run an offense. Someone like Wally, only on the offenseive side of the ball. Whatever that guy costs, go get him, otherwise this has all been for nothing.

Mess should have never been hired and then he should have been let go after the bowl game, but we are beyond that now. This year is lost, no sense is worrying about if we get 2 wins or 3 wins, it doesn't matter now. This year is now practice for our young players in an effort to have a peak year next year. I don't like it, but that is where we are at.

 

[Clone5]

Until Sam Richardson is 100% you can't evaluate the offensive coordinator. Our playcalling wasn't great yesterday but it wasn't as bad as it's made out to be. When you take away Sam's ability to run and he throws extremely poorly for the first 50 minutes of a game (sans the TD ball to Bundrage) there isn't an offense out there which can solve that.

Somehow every other team in the conference finds a quarterback who can deliver a ball within 5 yards of the LOS on the receiver's numbers 70%+ of the time. Our receivers catching the screen passes are jumping, falling to their knees, falling back, etc. most of the time and that extra second is turning a 4 yard gain into no gain or a loss. We run a receiver on a shallow cross who is torching a linebacker and then gets caught from behind because the throw isn't out in front of him and a play that was going to go for 15+ is now a 3 yard gain.

We missed a LOT of open receivers yesterday and I can count on 1 hand how many balls were delivered where they needed to be to get more than just a catch. Once that changes the offense will magically fix itself. Yesterday wasn't a problem with receivers getting separation. We overthrew a bunch of open receivers down the field.

You can evaluate that we have struck out recruiting quarterbacks for a few years but that's a reflection upon the whole staff so that doesn't bode well for Coach Rhoads.

To a post a few above, what offense has proven successful long term at Iowa State? There isn't one. No matter what offense you run you have to recruit well for it. We don't recruit well for any kind of offense. We play a soft defense because we can't recruit well enough to play in your face without getting burned constantly. I'm trying to think of a team that was good but had garbage for talent and was "coached up" to another level. You can coach up talent but a dumpster fire is a dumpster fire no matter how hard you try to coach it up.

Much of this is true but I think our biggest problem has been the lack of blocking for Richardson or anybody else for that matter. Our offensive line was horrendous last night again. The run blocking especially was disgusting. Richardson isn't a great Big 12 qb at this point but he looks like he could at least be serviceable for us with the right protection.

 

[Cyballz]

Texas Tech before Leach arrived was an absolute graveyard for talent

Leach took over a program that was run by a successful coach and hadn't had a losing season in 7 years, it was not graveyeard for talent.

 

[JUKEBOX]

Until Sam Richardson is 100% you can't evaluate the offensive coordinator. Our playcalling wasn't great yesterday but it wasn't as bad as it's made out to be. When you take away Sam's ability to run and he throws extremely poorly for the first 50 minutes of a game (sans the TD ball to Bundrage) there isn't an offense out there which can solve that.

Somehow every other team in the conference finds a quarterback who can deliver a ball within 5 yards of the LOS on the receiver's numbers 70%+ of the time. Our receivers catching the screen passes are jumping, falling to their knees, falling back, etc. most of the time and that extra second is turning a 4 yard gain into no gain or a loss. We run a receiver on a shallow cross who is torching a linebacker and then gets caught from behind because the throw isn't out in front of him and a play that was going to go for 15+ is now a 3 yard gain.

We missed a LOT of open receivers yesterday and I can count on 1 hand how many balls were delivered where they needed to be to get more than just a catch. Once that changes the offense will magically fix itself. Yesterday wasn't a problem with receivers getting separation. We overthrew a bunch of open receivers down the field.

You can evaluate that we have struck out recruiting quarterbacks for a few years but that's a reflection upon the whole staff so that doesn't bode well for Coach Rhoads.

To a post a few above, what offense has proven successful long term at Iowa State? There isn't one. No matter what offense you run you have to recruit well for it. We don't recruit well for any kind of offense. We play a soft defense because we can't recruit well enough to play in your face without getting burned constantly. I'm trying to think of a team that was good but had garbage for talent and was "coached up" to another level. You can coach up talent but a dumpster fire is a dumpster fire no matter how hard you try to coach it up.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

How many games will it take you to evaluate Courtney Messignham? The dude has been trash FOREVER!

Down to Cyclone Alley!

 

[Tre4ISU]

Until Sam Richardson is 100% you can't evaluate the offensive coordinator. Our playcalling wasn't great yesterday but it wasn't as bad as it's made out to be. When you take away Sam's ability to run and he throws extremely poorly for the first 50 minutes of a game (sans the TD ball to Bundrage) there isn't an offense out there which can solve that.

I agree with you somewhat but at the same time, it's the OCs job to make things work. I could understand being limited. Zero point against an awful secondary is not limited, it's atrocious. If Richardson being hurt is the limiting factor, I would think Rohach could have put those numbers up. It's the staff's job to have the next guy ready. It's also their job to say "Hey, our run game is predicated on the read plays. We don't have that right now, so we are going to have to chuck it around to either give us opportunity to run simple zone run plays or just chuck it around."

Somehow every other team in the conference finds a quarterback who can deliver a ball within 5 yards of the LOS on the receiver's numbers 70%+ of the time. Our receivers catching the screen passes are jumping, falling to their knees, falling back, etc. most of the time and that extra second is turning a 4 yard gain into no gain or a loss. We run a receiver on a shallow cross who is torching a linebacker and then gets caught from behind because the throw isn't out in front of him and a play that was going to go for 15+ is now a 3 yard gain.

Also agree. I would add that Iowa was begging us to throw in the middle of the field.

We missed a LOT of open receivers yesterday and I can count on 1 hand how many balls were delivered where they needed to be to get more than just a catch. Once that changes the offense will magically fix itself. Yesterday wasn't a problem with receivers getting separation. We overthrew a bunch of open receivers down the field

I think my opinion on SR has changed a little. The guy has all of the physical tools. He doesn't seem to go through progressions very well. I think that's something that takes a little coaching and maybe there's a piece of coaching that is holding that back but I doubt it. He has to be able to see coverage much faster. Our receivers are doing to many things really well to be in this shape. On that pick with the throw to West, he had burned his guy. Now, I realize he's small and that throw wasn't awful, but it needs to be put in front of him.


You can evaluate that we have struck out recruiting quarterbacks for a few years but that's a reflection upon the whole staff so that doesn't bode well for Coach Rhoads.

To a post a few above, what offense has proven successful long term at Iowa State? There isn't one. No matter what offense you run you have to recruit well for it. We don't recruit well for any kind of offense. We play a soft defense because we can't recruit well enough to play in your face without getting burned constantly. I'm trying to think of a team that was good but had garbage for talent and was "coached up" to another level. You can coach up talent but a dumpster fire is a dumpster fire no matter how hard you try to coach it up.

I don't disagree but at the same time, our offense isn't different than our defense in talent. If anything, there is more there. Our defense has been pretty good by any standard over the past few years. Our offense hasn't. Talent may be the separating factor in us being good vs great, but I don't think it's the issue that's keeping us so awful.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Much of this is true but I think our biggest problem has been the lack of blocking for Richardson or anybody else for that matter. Our offensive line was horrendous last night again. The run blocking especially was disgusting. Richardson isn't a great Big 12 qb at this point but he looks like he could at least be serviceable for us with the right protection.

I don't care how you do it, you can't block 6 with 5.

 

[psychlone99]

People are on Mess about last night, I actually thought last night he did as good as could be expected, he had no chance last night. Frist he isn't a very good OC in the first placed, add to that a gimp QB, an O line that is patched together with duct tape and last night was to be expected. Mess dug his grave with his incompetency last year and against UNI.

Can't get rid of him now in my opinion, I don't think there is any other option than playing this year out, developing guys, and then getting the best OC you can afford in the offseason. Why panic, replace him with someone else that won't do any better to try and win a few games in a season that is already lost? Last thing I want is to replace him with some other guy who can't do it. We need someone that is qualified. Can't do it cheap, can't make a mistake, can't be an internal guy, Rhoads job and this program depend on the success of the next OC. Doesn't matter if the guy is here long term or not, it needs to be a guy who has shown they can run an offense. Someone like Wally, only on the offenseive side of the ball. Whatever that guy costs, go get him, otherwise this has all been for nothing.

Mess should have never been hired and then he should have been let go after the bowl game, but we are beyond that now. This year is lost, no sense is worrying about if we get 2 wins or 3 wins, it doesn't matter now. This year is now practice for our young players in an effort to have a peak year next year. I don't like it, but that is where we are at.

I can buy that logic. If Rhoads comes to the realization that a change needs to be made, and is absolutely convinced that there is no long-term solution on staff, then there's no reason to act during the season (especially if a big hole has been dug already anyway). Take your lumps then pony up for a legitimate hire in the offseason. That said, I'm not sure how you could have been convinced at one point in time that Mess was a good option, and then feel that neither Sturdy nor Klenakis would be capable.

 

[norcalcy]

People are on Mess about last night, I actually thought last night he did as good as could be expected, he had no chance last night. Frist he isn't a very good OC in the first placed, add to that a gimp QB, an O line that is patched together with duct tape and last night was to be expected. Mess dug his grave with his incompetency last year and against UNI.

Can't get rid of him now in my opinion, I don't think there is any other option than playing this year out, developing guys, and then getting the best OC you can afford in the offseason. Why panic, replace him with someone else that won't do any better to try and win a few games in a season that is already lost? Last thing I want is to replace him with some other guy who can't do it. We need someone that is qualified. Can't do it cheap, can't make a mistake, can't be an internal guy, Rhoads job and this program depend on the success of the next OC. Doesn't matter if the guy is here long term or not, it needs to be a guy who has shown they can run an offense. Someone like Wally, only on the offenseive side of the ball. Whatever that guy costs, go get him, otherwise this has all been for nothing.

Mess should have never been hired and then he should have been let go after the bowl game, but we are beyond that now. This year is lost, no sense is worrying about if we get 2 wins or 3 wins, it doesn't matter now. This year is now practice for our young players in an effort to have a peak year next year. I don't like it, but that is where we are at.

Serious question. Why the faith in 2014? Take yourself back to 2011 or even 2010 and then try to remember what you would have expected for this program by 2013. Go back and read the recruiting threads from those days about all the stud linemen we were recruiting and developing. This is year freaking five of this administration. The trajectory is horrible (2 for our last 10, haven't won at home for almost a year). Unless I see something that resembles a pulse this year, I will begin to seriously question this head coach. I'm done with the Koolaid. They need to get this fixed now or this program takes a huge step back. We keep this crap up and we'll be luck to fill the stands between the 20s. I would love to be a fly on the wall in JP's office this week. The AD has done a wonderful job marketing this program, fighting for facilities and improvement and keeping us in a power conference. Coaches and players have done a terrible job holding up their end of the bargain.

 

[JUKEBOX]

Serious question. Why the faith in 2014? Take yourself back to 2011 or even 2010 and then try to remember what you would have expected for this program by 2013. Go back and read the recruiting threads from those days about all the stud linemen we were recruiting and developing. This is year freaking five of this administration. The trajectory is horrible (2 for our last 10, haven't won at home for almost a year). Unless I see something that resembles a pulse this year, I will begin to seriously question this head coach. I'm done with the Koolaid. They need to get this fixed now or this program takes a huge step back. We keep this crap up and we'll be luck to fill the stands between the 20s. I would love to be a fly on the wall in JP's office this week. The AD has done a wonderful job marketing this program, fighting for facilities and improvement and keeping us in a power conference. Coaches and players have done a terrible job holding up their end of the bargain.

Yep.

 

[Wesley]

Leach has NOBODY at Wazzou. Completely dead program he took over.

Year 2 he is 2-1 so far, close to 3-0. Wins against USC and put up 48 points against a nobody. How many times has ISU put up over 48 points in the current regime?

You mean this century?

We saw some fire in the defense last game, but the offense looks like they are going to an ice cream social. Where is the fire to get the offense motivated????

 

[ExCyment]

They mean he sees the lack of foresight and production from the offense, but isn't willing to pull the trigger this early in the season. No coordinator is magically going to fix the offense mid season. I would guess he might quietly change signal calling responsibilities if Tulsa doesn't go we'll and look for who he can at tracked in the off season. I agree that fat man looks like a good option. Hickory park would at least benefit from that change.

 

[Wesley]

You know it's bad when we do not even attempt a long fieldgoal.

 

[Judoka]

You know it's bad when we do not even attempt a long fieldgoal.

Do you not remember what happened last game when we tried long field goals?

That's as bad as the guy who was complaining that we had our WRs run deep routes on third and a mile.