By culture of ISU I do not mean understanding the offense, I mean the difference between a guy like McDermott and a guy like Hoiberg, or maybe the fact that Nick Saban couldn't win here with the types of recruits we get. I would really like to know who you exactly wanted to hire as OC?
***OFFICIAL FIRE MESSINGHAM THREAD***
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By culture of ISU I do not mean understanding the offense, I mean the difference between a guy like McDermott and a guy like Hoiberg, or maybe the fact that Nick Saban couldn't win here with the types of recruits we get. I would really like to know who you exactly wanted to hire as OC?
God I hate this attitude. K State wins with recruits like ours. Vandy, northwestern and or state win with recruits like ours. The big 12 was down this year. So tired of this crap about how we can't compete. We're either a Big 12 program or we aren't. Unfortunately we weren't even a conf USA team today. Get some frisking coaching talent on the offensive side of the ball. We're doing it on defense for @&@$ sake.
I didn't say we couldn't compete, I said we needed the right guy to compete. K-State competes because they have a coach that understands their culture. Think of the coaches that have won at Iowa State, they understood Iowa State. It's a place where not anyone can coach. They have to be a good coach, but they also have to understand what they are up against. They have to understand they won't get the top recruits, so they will then have to rely more on hard work and fundamentals to compete.
Understanding the culture as in "the difference between a guy like McD and a guy like Hoiberg"? What does that even mean in regards to hiring an OC?
Nevertheless, the difference between Fred and McD does nothing but support my argument. McD understood the "cultural" part of ISU, but he did not have the background of major college hoops. He was familiar with the MVC and North Dakota level. Fred intimately understood what it takes to win in the Big 12.
I am not sure where Nick Saban's hypothetical record comes into play when discussing offense and OC at ISU being able to be better than bad and Mess, respectively. You do know we just put 10 points up on offense against Tulsa. Go take a look at their recruits. Almost any hire from FBS that was brining in their own offense would have been better than staying in-house and have Mess call someone else's failed offense.
Prior to this season thinking hiring Mess was optimal was ignoring most logic. Thinking so after this year is just being stupid.
A coach has to understand the school they are coaching at. Frankly figuring out how to win at Iowa State is different than Alabama. They must be a "good fit" if you will, since evidently you are unsure what the definition of the word "culture" is. And once again, who would you have hired? I really want to know this because obviously you are an expert on all of the FBS coaches that we could have hired instead of him.
I think Coach Rhoads thought Mess would allow there to be consistency in the program. I'm sure he thought the talent level was improving and the offense would be better because of it. It just didn't happen. The offense needs good quarterback play and we haven't had that.
It is odd how successful we are with the scripted plays and then we seem to struggle as the game progresses.
It is odd how successful we are with the scripted plays and then we seem to struggle as the game progresses.
Again, why are you bringing up Alabama? There are more options other than Mess and someone coaching at Alabama.
Has Mess shown he knows what it takes to win at ISU? Understanding the culture is not even on the same page of considerations as understanding how to run an offense in Big 12.
The list of who would have been a more logical hire is so large. Mess offered so little in terms of suggesting he knew how to run a successful offense at ISU it is laughable you think ISU could not have done better.
Not odd, it proves the lack of coaching talent. Anyone can cook from a recipe. Putting together a meal from what's thrown at you takes talent. Mess has to go, that was disgusting.
You can say that but many have thought he needed to go long before yesterday's game. ISU Isnt and wasn't competitive on offense this year. And that is on the OC. Look if we played Oklahoma today and it looked this bad i would might have a different outlook. But no way should ISU get that out coached by Tulsa. As far as those arguing that we need to have a coach that knows the culture and type of athlete. That is what CPR is for. He under stands ISU. I would like to bet in his heart of hearts he knows Messingham isn't the best ISU can have for our OC. Bad mouth Herman all you want, at least Meyer wanted him. There wouldn't be a single BCS coach call about Messingham for an OC job. There are plenty of good offensive minds out there that ISU. Can do better than this past year.First 24 hours after a loss on CF...
So have you sent your resume with your vast coaching skills to CPR appyling for the job of OC or are you just going to contimue to watch the games from your easy chair, waatch the replays and say I can do better then that. Lets face it everyone is a great coach when you can analize a play after it is over and say that did not work. Every play is perfect on paper but we don't play the game on paper.
No one has said "I can do better than that". Like you said, recognizing that our offense under Mess did not perform well enough is something everyone can see as it does not require one to be a superior coach. Pick your cliche- your claim of false authority fails.
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A bad offense has been a characteristic of the Rhoads tenure. In the Big 12 last year we finished 8th of 10 teams, and this year we finished 9th of 10 teams. That is not success. We're stuck as a program. The offense must change. I'm not the expert, but it seems to me we have an issue in one of three areas:
1) We have poor offensive coaching, not just Messingham but Herman before him.
2) We have poor offensive talent.
3) Our offensive scheme doesn't fit the talent we recruit
Whatever the issue is, we gotta make significant changes. Making bowl games in the bloated bowl system of today should not be enough. Jim Criner and Jim Walden would have made bowl games under today's system.
On the positive side, even though the defense was lousy yesterday, kudos to the defense for an outstanding season! When Jake Knott was on the field this group was a very special group.
1) We have poor offensive coaching, not just Messingham but Herman before him.
2) We have poor offensive talent.
3) Our offensive scheme doesn't fit the talent we recruit
Whatever the issue is, we gotta make significant changes. Making bowl games in the bloated bowl system of today should not be enough. Jim Criner and Jim Walden would have made bowl games under today's system.
On the positive side, even though the defense was lousy yesterday, kudos to the defense for an outstanding season! When Jake Knott was on the field this group was a very special group.
Back in the 90's when isu was bad, at least they had a good offense. Now that isu can play defense we can't get an offense that can stay on the field or score. CPR has had 4 seasons and the offense keeps falling farther and farther behind the other big 12 teams, need to find someone else to coach the offense
First 24 hours after a loss on CF...
i wasn't happy about his hire when that was announced and I've been complaining about him all season. We are either not able to run the offense as it should be run or the offensive scheme sucks. Either way, this was year four of this system and it did not improve at all on offense. At some point you have to adapt to the players you do have. Mess does not seem to want to do that. What's the old saying about doing the same thing over and over hoping for different results?
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I find it interesting that you have yet to name even one coach who you would have hired as OC instead of Mess. You say there are a lot of them but you haven't named one yet. Quite frankly there are more intangibles that Rhoads had to consider than just hiring the most pleasing name. You seem to be having a lot of trouble understanding that but I can't make it any more simple than I already have. Truth is Rhoads went with the guy he thought was best for Iowa State. He had more to consider than who had the best credentials. That's why he hired Mess. It wasn't the best most of the time this year. I believe over the next two seasons we will see significant improvement.
