***Official ISU vs CU Post Game Thread***

[Angie]

Well, this is where I would have to disagree with you Angie. I can tell for sure. It appears NONE of them, outside of Boozer, have hit the weight room. None. If they have been, it sure doesn't show. Doing the weights and the plyo is where you develop your body. ISU is fielding a team of boys, going up against men. That is what Big12 bball is all about. Toughness. LE's teams had it, same with TF's and also WM's even. You have to be physical to win in the Big12, especially on the road.

I don't see much development out of the players on their own, and I think that shows that Greg doesn't push them much in that area either. Greg has become soft, and his teams take on that characteristic.

I missed the game, but it sounds like I didn't miss much. It was just a re-run of almost all other bball games this year.

Weight-lifting doesn't always equal mass - often it equals tone.

 

[ISUFan22]

I understand that my next comment will refer to a recruiting problem, and this is a gap for us, but it comes down to that refuse-to-lose leader on the floor, too. Those guys are apparently getting harder and harder to find.

We don't have one, period.

 

[Toasted40]

I think this team is one take-charge guard away from really good things. They need that guy that can bring everybody together and say, "This is how it's going to be. Right now, follow me."
Especially with the fragile thing. They need that guy that they can always rely on.

Wow, keep digging.

The problem with your "theory" is that you can even go back to when he was successful at UNI, and he didn't have that take charge lead guard there.

The closest would have been Robbie Sieverding his first year. The rest of the time he played Chris Foster, John Little, Brooks McKowen, and Pete Schmitt at the point position.

Brooks could have been that guy, but Greg and Marty (father) didn't get along.

I know this is pointless, trying to explain this to you. but Greg functions as his own lead guard. Watch him on the sidelines moving people around to spots on the floor.

 

[Wesley]

Agree.

It's a fragile team and it's clear they still don't "get it." They just do not get how hard you have to play on every single possession to be successful.

That is true in the Big 12 tournament. We just do not know how to step it up at the end of the game. Why did we not have four players waiting at the three court line? Why? Why? Lack of effort?

 

[CycloneErik]

We don't have one, period.

Right. That's pretty much what I'm getting at.

How many are out there anymore? Sherron, obviously. Does Scheyer fit this bill? I'm not sure how many are out there, but it sure seems to be hard to find them.

 

[CycloneErik]

Wow, keep digging.

The problem with your "theory" is that you can even go back to when he was successful at UNI, and he didn't have that take charge lead guard there.

The closest would have been Robbie Sieverding his first year. The rest of the time he played Chris Foster, John Little, Brooks McKowen, and Pete Schmitt at the point position.

Brooks could have been that guy, but Greg and Marty (father) didn't get along.

I know this is pointless, trying to explain this to you. but Greg functions as his own lead guard. Watch him on the sidelines moving people around to spots on the floor.

Maybe if you was tiping slower, I cud get it.

 

[Clone_12]

Explain why it happens at so many programs. Is UCLA really suffering from a talent problem? UNC?

I understand that my next comment will refer to a recruiting problem, and this is a gap for us, but it comes down to that refuse-to-lose leader on the floor, too. Those guys are apparently getting harder and harder to find.

We have a more talented team right now than UCLA does this season...and we are a MUCH more experienced team than UNC (often times when young teams face adversity they cave much faster)...plus Ben Howland and Roy Williams' resumes give them the slack for a bad season much, much more than Greg's does.

I'm not calling for his head, just refuting your point...sooner or later you HAVE to pin SOME of the responsibility on the coach for disappointing results, right?

 

[snowcraig2.0]

Angie,

Please stop using the 'these guys aren't making a dime' line. They get all of their food, lodging, and EDUCATION paid for, I am still paying on student loans. Secondly, I would have killed to be able to play Big 12 ball. These guys should be honored and feel privileged to play ball at ISU.

 

[Angie]

And what's the excuse for when these guys were on the floor and the results were the same back then? This isn't a one game thing for me or even a one season issue. This program has experienced the same exact problems and lost games in the same exact way for a few years now. No progression. No changes. And no solid improvements to speak of.

Again, talent discrepancies have existed between us and many of our competitors. Team chemistry has likely been affected by both off- and in-season defections and injuries. Now you add in fatigue and defeat. Effort doesn't always equal wins - sometimes there are just too many other factors going on.

 

[Wesley]

Wow, keep digging.

The problem with your "theory" is that you can even go back to when he was successful at UNI, and he didn't have that take charge lead guard there.

The closest would have been Robbie Sieverding his first year. The rest of the time he played Chris Foster, John Little, Brooks McKowen, and Pete Schmitt at the point position.

Brooks could have been that guy, but Greg and Marty (father) didn't get along.

I know this is pointless, trying to explain this to you. but Greg functions as his own lead guard. Watch him on the sidelines moving people around to spots on the floor.

It looks like it works well.:wink:

 

[Angie]

Angie,

Please stop using the 'these guys aren't making a dime' line. They get all of their food, lodging, and EDUCATION paid for, I am still paying on student loans. Secondly, I would have killed to be able to play Big 12 ball. These guys should be honored and feel privileged to play ball at ISU.

Craig could have gone pro last year and made a ton of money. Instead, he returned to play here - possibly to his detriment. Lots of people get education scholarships for all kinds of different reasons - need/hardship, intelligence, talent, and athleticism. I think that a ton of people on this board would admit that an education doesn't necessarily guarantee anything in life - the money that Craig could have made by going pro is pretty tangible.

 

[Toasted40]

Explain why it happens at so many programs. Is UCLA really suffering from a talent problem? UNC?

I understand that my next comment will refer to a recruiting problem, and this is a gap for us, but it comes down to that refuse-to-lose leader on the floor, too. Those guys are apparently getting harder and harder to find.

You make these statements like effort has been a problem for either UNC of UCLA over the years. They got caught with their recruiting, and that is why they are having a bad year. There comes a point when after a lot of success, and having players leave early, it catches up to you.

If this is still the case two years from now, then you may have a point. You don't now other than making excuses.

 

[StLouisClone]

Which of these teams had more talent, experience and depth?

2009-2010 (14-15, 3-11)
Garrett - Junior
Christopherson - Redshirt sophomore (Wisconsin Mr. BB)
Gilstrap - Big 12 preseason newcomer of the year
Brackins - preseason all-Big 12
Hamilton - Sophomore
Dendy - Juco transfer
Colvin - True freshman
Buckley - Sophomore
Staiger - Junior
Boozer - Junior

2005-2006 (16-14, 6-10)
Blalock - Junior
Stinson - Junior
Clark - Sophomore
Hubalek - Junior
Marsden - Sophomore
Taggart - True freshman
J. Neal - Senior
A. Davis - Senior
T. Carr - Sophomore
J. Gray - Junior

I really think this year's team has more talent and experience and isn't that far behind in depth. The 2005-06 team lost Jessan Gray to an injury about halfway into the season. Plus Tasheed Carr had a horrible sophomore slump and didn't even play in 9 games.

I'd certainly take Gilstrap, Brackins and Hamilton over Clark, Hubalek and Marsden. If 16-14 got you know who canned, I wouldn't want to be in GMac's shoes right now.

 

[Clone_12]

Again, talent discrepancies have existed between us and many of our competitors. Team chemistry has likely been affected by both off- and in-season defections and injuries. Now you add in fatigue and defeat. Effort doesn't always equal wins - sometimes there are just too many other factors going on.

Do you think our effort was good against Cal, Duke, the first 10minutes against Oklahoma State, the first 8 minutes today, Kansas in Hilton, Houston, at Texas Tech, at Oklahoma...etc? How can you have watched those games and said nobody knows whether or not the effort is good? People that have been around the game know when a team is competing, and when they aren't from what they see on the court...how can you say "nobody knows" if they were giving it their all? Did you watch those games?

You HAVE to play hard for 40minutes at this level to achieve. This team for some reason does not grasp that...whose job is it to make them realize it?

 

[CycloneErik]

You make these statements like effort has been a problem for either UNC of UCLA over the years. They got caught with their recruiting, and that is why they are having a bad year. There comes a point when after a lot of success, and having players leave early, it catches up to you.

If this is still the case two years from now, then you may have a point. You don't now other than making excuses.

Or asking question for discussions' sake. Whatever.

 

[gocubs2118]

Which of these teams had more talent, experience and depth?

2009-2010 (14-15, 3-11)
Garrett - Junior
Christopherson - Redshirt sophomore (Wisconsin Mr. BB)
Gilstrap - Big 12 preseason newcomer of the year
Brackins - preseason all-Big 12
Hamilton - Sophomore
Dendy - Juco transfer
Colvin - True freshman
Buckley - Sophomore
Staiger - Junior
Boozer - Junior

2005-2006 (16-14, 6-10)
Blalock - Junior
Stinson - Junior
Clark - Sophomore
Hubalek - Junior
Marsden - Sophomore
Taggart - True freshman
J. Neal - Senior
A. Davis - Senior
T. Carr - Sophomore
J. Gray - Junior

I really think this year's team has more talent and experience and isn't that far behind in depth. The 2005-06 team lost Jessan Gray to an injury about halfway into the season. Plus Tasheed Carr had a horrible sophomore slump and didn't even play in 9 games.

I'd certainly take Gilstrap, Brackins and Hamilton over Clark, Hubalek and Marsden. If 16-14 got you know who canned, I wouldn't want to be in GMac's shoes right now.

The difference between these two teams is the talent in the backcourt. You could have the weakest frontcourt in the country but if your guards can score, then you have a chance at being good. If you don't have any guards that can score at will but have nice frontcourt players, you aren't going to be good. Guards kill in college basketball, as you can see from this team. You put a Mike Taylor on this team to go along with Brackins and Gilstrap and we are at least a bubble team.

 

[snowcraig2.0]

So, is Craig above accountability? Is Greg. Is everyone?

 

[Wesley]

Guards went 4-20 with DG as 4-9.
Front court shot 20-42.

Pretty evident where the game was decided.

We should play four front court players. Wait. We only have four to play without JVB. Whoops, we must play two guards that can shoot. Too bad Lucca and Booze are not available. Or a couple of those guards that left last year could have helped....

Just a guess that high elevation negated SC today...

Colvin just plain needs to be able to shoot.

Buckley needs to get much tougher on defense.

 

[Angie]

Do you think our effort was good against Cal, Duke, the first 10minutes against Oklahoma State, the first 8 minutes today, Kansas in Hilton, Houston, at Texas Tech, at Oklahoma...etc? How can you have watched those games and said nobody knows whether or not the effort is good? People that have been around the game know when a team is competing, and when they aren't from what they see on the court...how can you say "nobody knows" if they were giving it their all? Did you watch those games?

You HAVE to play hard for 40minutes at this level to achieve. This team for some reason does not grasp that...whose job is it to make the realize it?

Do you honestly think our talent level is the same as Duke and Kansas, as well as many of the others? Also anyone who has been around the game knows that there are times when it just doesn't click no matter what you try - shots don't fall, you get a bad bounce on a rebound, etc. I'm not at all saying that there haven't been individual moments when we haven't looked like we have given up - but the fact that we have been in almost every game we've played, especially when we've had to fight back (with a few obvious exceptions) shows that we're trying. To say that we've given up overall is obviously false, or else we wouldn't have ever battled back - we would have gotten down and stayed down.

 

[Toasted40]

Or asking question for discussions' sake. Whatever.

Then compare how hard we play compared to Tennesee. They have 6 players left.

Compare us to Kansas State effort wise. Compare our effort to Baylor's, I have heard lots Cyclone fans all talk about how Martin and Drew can't coach.

What about those comparisons?