OT: Making A Murderer on Netflix

[00clone]

I would say the film was obviously one sided, but there is no way you could possibly prove without a reasonable doubt that he did it. Yes, he may have done it, but that isn't how our justice system works. There is more than enough reasonable doubt that he did it, so he must be found not guilty.

thankgodthankgodthankgod that clonedude didn't actually become a cop. It's not "beyond a shadow of a doubt", it's "beyond a reasonable doubt".

 

[cyclonespiker33]

Ill say someof the evidence that was left out and tell me if you think he probably did it? Because it's pretty clear to me that he probably did.

1. He dumped oil on a cat and lit it on fire (That sounds pretty unstable to me)

2. He threaten a woman gunpoint along with other numerous criminal activities

3. In the months leading up to Halbach's disappearance, Avery had called Auto Trader several times and always specifically requested Halbach to come out and take the photos.

4. Halbach had complained to her boss that she didn't want to go out to Avery's trailer anymore, because once when she came out, Avery was waiting for her wearing only a towel (this was excluded for being too inflammatory). Avery clearly had an obsession with Halbach.

5. On the day that Halbach went missing, Avery had called her three times, twice from a *67 number to hide his identity.

6. The bullet with Halbach's DNA on it came from Avery's gun, which always hung above his bed. (hard to frame a man using a gun he sleeps with0

7. Avery had purchased handcuffs and leg irons like the ones Dassey described holding Halbach only three weeks before (Avery said he's purchased them for use with his girlfriend, Jodi, with whom he'd had a tumultuous relationship -- at one point, he was ordered by police to stay away from her for three days).

8. Here's the piece of evidence that was presented at trial but not in the series that I find most convincing: In Dassey's illegally obtained statement, Dassey stated that he helped Avery moved the RAV4 into the junkyard and that Avery had lifted the hood and removed the battery cable. Even if you believe that the blood in Halbach's car was planted by the cops (as I do), there was also non-blood DNA evidence on the hood latch. I don't believe the police would plant -- or know to plant -- that evidence.

9. Teresa's camera and palm pilot were found in Avery's burn barrel.

Don't get me wrong the cops and DA didn't sound like good people, but Avery was clearly the bad guy. Even Brendan said he did it and Avery used to touch him. With this evidence it's clear why the jury said he was guilty.

1) While disturbing, doesn't prove anything in this case.

2) See 1

3) Do you have a favorite barber, or waiter? This doesn't mean much.

4) He's a creepy guy, that doesn't prove him a murderer at all.

5) See 4

6) I don't have anything for this

7) Anything Dassey said doesn't mean a thing, which should be pretty obvious.

8) See 7

9) Doesn't mean anything with all the other planted evidence.

 

[srjclone]

While I did feel that Steven Avery did not do it, there are several concerning things that could point to him doing it. Brendan Dassey is for sure innocent in all of this, that may be the most saddening part of the entire series for me.

There was this theory that I read a little bit ago, about who may have actually committed the crime, and why Steven wasn't the actual killer, and it is very well thought out.

http://www.sunnyskyz.com/blog/1244/...ble-Making-A-Murderer-Theory-I-ve-Seen-So-Far

And if you were to watch back the series with this in your mind, the way the characters act seems to match it very well.. (Teresas's brother so sure that it was Steven, Tadych saying something along the lines of "this is the best thing that could have ever happened")

 

[Tre4ISU]

Ill say someof the evidence that was left out and tell me if you think he probably did it? Because it's pretty clear to me that he probably did.

1. He dumped oil on a cat and lit it on fire (That sounds pretty unstable to me)

2. He threaten a woman gunpoint along with other numerous criminal activities

3. In the months leading up to Halbach's disappearance, Avery had called Auto Trader several times and always specifically requested Halbach to come out and take the photos.

4. Halbach had complained to her boss that she didn't want to go out to Avery's trailer anymore, because once when she came out, Avery was waiting for her wearing only a towel (this was excluded for being too inflammatory). Avery clearly had an obsession with Halbach.

5. On the day that Halbach went missing, Avery had called her three times, twice from a *67 number to hide his identity.

6. The bullet with Halbach's DNA on it came from Avery's gun, which always hung above his bed. (hard to frame a man using a gun he sleeps with0

7. Avery had purchased handcuffs and leg irons like the ones Dassey described holding Halbach only three weeks before (Avery said he's purchased them for use with his girlfriend, Jodi, with whom he'd had a tumultuous relationship -- at one point, he was ordered by police to stay away from her for three days).

8. Here's the piece of evidence that was presented at trial but not in the series that I find most convincing: In Dassey's illegally obtained statement, Dassey stated that he helped Avery moved the RAV4 into the junkyard and that Avery had lifted the hood and removed the battery cable. Even if you believe that the blood in Halbach's car was planted by the cops (as I do), there was also non-blood DNA evidence on the hood latch. I don't believe the police would plant -- or know to plant -- that evidence.

9. Teresa's camera and palm pilot were found in Avery's burn barrel.

Don't get me wrong the cops and DA didn't sound like good people, but Avery was clearly the bad guy. Even Brendan said he did it and Avery used to touch him. With this evidence it's clear why the jury said he was guilty.

So you proclaim Dasseys statement to be credible. Where is any forensice evidence of this murder that makes any sense. If she was killed on his property, what's the reason for putting her in the vehicle? That's easy until you have to give me a reason to move some of her bones and belongings back to the residence. The scenario brought by the prosecution was not worthy of a guilty conviction. None of what they said was backed up by evidence and there was plenty out there to give pause in regard to convicting Avery. There is reasonable doubt. I would say there's an 80% chance he did it, but you can't make up an entire story with little to no physical backing and make the charge stick. AM I expected to believe a guy stupid enough to leave her remains on his property is smart enough to clean up the scene described?

 

[JP4CY]

There is a podcast called Real Crime Profile. It is two profilers that review cases and give their insights into the behavior of the victims and defendants. Then they give their opinion. They did three episodes on the Avery case, and I found it fascinating. Lots of insight into the people, and the police work.

I highly recommend it.

Real Crime is a great podcast. They probably do a better job with the OJ case than this case. I have listened to every one the lyrics did. Last one on the unabomber is also fascinating.

 

[cmjh10]

If Avery killed him, where was all the blood? That was the biggest thing to me. Did I miss it during the show?

I don't believe the cops planted evidence outside maybe the blood in the Rav4, but I think Avery's brother in law and nephew had something g to do with it.

 

[clonedude]

thankgodthankgodthankgod that clonedude didn't actually become a cop. It's not "beyond a shadow of a doubt", it's "beyond a reasonable doubt".

Wut? I said "reasonable doubt" twice. I've never said "shadow of a doubt". I don't understand what you're trying to say?

 

[clonedude]

1) While disturbing, doesn't prove anything in this case.

2) See 1

3) Do you have a favorite barber, or waiter? This doesn't mean much.

4) He's a creepy guy, that doesn't prove him a murderer at all.

5) See 4

6) I don't have anything for this

7) Anything Dassey said doesn't mean a thing, which should be pretty obvious.

8) See 7

9) Doesn't mean anything with all the other planted evidence.

This ^^^ x 1,000.

Just because Avery has had some previous run ins with the law doesn't mean he committed this murder. And nothing Dassey said can be taken seriously at all, if you watched the documentary you should realize this. The kid has the IQ of a rock and was just saying whatever the cops told him he had to say to not get in trouble.

There are just WAY too many holes in the prosecution's case. Like I said, I'm not saying he didn't kill her, but they didn't come even close to proving that without a reasonable doubt.

 

[cycloneworld]

If Avery killed him, where was all the blood? That was the biggest thing to me. Did I miss it during the show?

I don't believe the cops planted evidence outside maybe the blood in the Rav4, but I think Avery's brother in law and nephew had something g to do with it.

This is my major question too. If she was shackled in his bedroom and killed there, why is there ZERO signs of blood or her DNR? Is Avery capable of cleaning the room SO WELL that there is nothing left (or any sign of cleaning?) but so dumb he leaves the key in the room (planted) and the RAV4 on his property (even though he has a car crusher)?

He might have done it but it 100% could not have happened as the cops/DA said it did.

 

[timhisu]

7. Avery had purchased handcuffs and leg irons like the ones Dassey described holding Halbach only three weeks before (Avery said he's purchased them for use with his girlfriend, Jodi, with whom he'd had a tumultuous relationship -- at one point, he was ordered by police to stay away from her for three days).

From what I understand the "handcuffs" were the pink furry type and not your standard-issue police handcuffs.

 

[Cyclone1985]

The entire premise of the series is to leave the viewer with "reasonable doubt", which it does... which is all that is needed for a not guilty verdict, which did not happen.

I've read numerous sites with "facts" from the prosecution and still have doubts. Do I think Avery did it? Not sure. Could he have? Most definitely. But there is no way it happened the way the the prosecution said it happened.

They had their story in their head and tried to find evidence to prove their story, instead of letting the evidence tell the story. This is why I also believe things may have been planted, moved, or altered, to help corroborate their "story".

And in regards to Brandon's comments -- he has an IQ between 69-73. The cutoff generally used for intellectual disability is 70. Nothing he said should have been allowed in court, yet this was the prosecution's main argument -- a story made up by the interrogators and repeated by Dassey. For crying out loud, he thought he was going to make it home to watch WWE after admitting to murder!!

 

[Gunnerclone]

So you proclaim Dasseys statement to be credible. Where is any forensice evidence of this murder that makes any sense. If she was killed on his property, what's the reason for putting her in the vehicle? That's easy until you have to give me a reason to move some of her bones and belongings back to the residence. The scenario brought by the prosecution was not worthy of a guilty conviction. None of what they said was backed up by evidence and there was plenty out there to give pause in regard to convicting Avery. There is reasonable doubt. I would say there's an 80% chance he did it, but you can't make up an entire story with little to no physical backing and make the charge stick. AM I expected to believe a guy stupid enough to leave her remains on his property is smart enough to clean up the scene described?

Then there is the whole money thing. It always comes back to the money. Seems like people want to forget about that aspect. It was basically a "kill or be killed" scenario for those deposed in the lawsuit.

 

[Cyclonesrule91]

Wife and I are now up to the point where Brendan's trial is about to start. The prosecutor in this case makes me want to puke the way he acts.....Arrogant like the rest of the law enforcement from that county.

It blows me away they are even taking Brendan to trial after you see the way that entire interrogation went down with him and the two detectives... That is frustrating.

I thought I read somewhere a month ago or so that now there was new information that the gal that was killed actually used her cell phone like 16 miles away from the salvage yard and there was new info that could point to a new suspect but haven't heard anything since. Maybe the brother-in-law is the new suspect. Either way, innocent of planting or guilty, that counties entire law enforcment office looks like a bunch of hacks.

 

[ruxCYtable]

The law behaved egregiously. And he totally did it.

 

[CyTwins]

Brendan Dassey's conviction in Halbach homicide overturned

http://www.wisn.com/news/brendan-dasseys-conviction-overturned/41178138

 

[CloneIce]

The law behaved egregiously. And he totally did it.

Yep.

 

[CycloneVet]

I have done some research after watching the documentary. I spoke with my cousins wife who is very high up in the Milwaukee police department. She told me that 90% (at least) of the evidence that was presented against Steven Avery in the trial was not shown in the show. To me that's a lot of things that led to his conviction. He ordered handcuffs some time before Teresa Halbeck was murdered and also seemed to have an unhealthy obsession with her. Do I think some of the things were questionable about the trial that were shown in the documentary, hell yes. I take it all with a grain of salt however by just looking how the media can manipulate people with controlling the content reported. If that makes any sense.

 

[VTXCyRyD]

http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2016/08/12/dassey-wins-ruling-teresa-halbach-murder/88632502/

edit: I'm just not quick enough

 

[clonedude]

So if Dassey's interrogation was basically thrown out, but that was used to prosecute Avery, shouldn't Avery be let off as well? I wasn't sure how that worked? I'm not a lawyer.

 

[ThatllDoCy]

Steven Avery may be guilty, but the story that they had Brendan cook up was total fantasy, and they knew it. His lawyer is the one who should have gone to prison. That Lou Holtz looking piece of garbage was even worse than the prosecutor.