Please Stop with "should've run on 2nd"

3TrueFans

Just a Happily Married Man
Sep 10, 2009
63,244
61,918
113
Ames
Yea... but hind sight is 20/20. The plays that were called actually worked. We know that. It actually happened. PI on third down pass won the game. That isn't hypothetical. The fact that the ref for no known reason picked up the flag doesn't change the fact that the play call won the game.

I don't get the argument. What you are saying, is that we would have won the game even if we knelt on the ball twice and punted. Think about it. WE WON THE GAME WITH THE PLAYS CALLED. No way Manning is at fault for this situation.
The 2nd down play 100% did not work, I don't necessarily hate calling for a pass there but it needs to be a pass that can be completed damn near all the time. We had to do one of two things on that drive, either get a first down or run as much time off as possible while forcing them to use all of their timeouts.
 

Yellow Snow

Full of nonsense....
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Oct 19, 2006
2,498
2,213
113
Osage, IA
Noone said anything about taking a knee or that we were guarenteed to win the game if we ran. Im simply saying there is no way you allow kst8 to get the ball back without using all their timeouts. If we had picked up the first down on the 2nd down pass the game still wasnt over because kst8 had 2 timeouts left. I think we are gonna have to all just agree to disagree on this. I love ballsy play calls but this is one time i disagreed with it.

If it was me, when it was 2nd and 6 and kst8 used their 1st timeout i would have put in the lanram package and told my warrior senior to go get me 6 yds in 2 plays and lets go 8-4.

I'll agree to disagree. It's all good.

But my argument isn't based on hypothetical situations about LanRam or running twice instead of passing. We won the game with the plays called. We won the game.

The problem was the officials picking up a flag.

I guess it boils down to whether or not you feel it was PI or not. If you feel it was PI, you can't blame play calling. If it wasn't PI then you have a point.
 

cyups2323

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Nov 13, 2013
768
1,855
93
100% it was pass interference and we got hosed as usual but I highly doubt any football coach at any level of football is calling a play in that situation of a game in hopes of getting a pass intereference call. if we hadnt been picking up 3 to 5 yds on every run play i would definitely agree with you.
 

Yellow Snow

Full of nonsense....
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Oct 19, 2006
2,498
2,213
113
Osage, IA
100% it was pass interference and we got hosed as usual but I highly doubt any football coach at any level of football is calling a play in that situation of a game in hopes of getting a pass intereference call. if we hadnt been picking up 3 to 5 yds on every run play i would definitely agree with you.

Do you think that is what they were going after? A PI call? Yes or no?
 

cyups2323

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Nov 13, 2013
768
1,855
93
Obviously they wanted a completed pass. Like i said before, we will just have to agree to disagree. You liked the passes there, thats totally fine. I would have ran 2 more times and possibly gotten a game clinching 1st down. Worst case scenario punting to kst8 with them having to go 80 yds in about 90 seconds with no timeouts and an injured freshman qb but thats just my opinion. Either way i love this team and this coaching staff and feel great about our future. Im sure everyone involved learned from this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Yellow Snow

Yellow Snow

Full of nonsense....
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Oct 19, 2006
2,498
2,213
113
Osage, IA
Obviously they wanted a completed pass. Like i said before, we will just have to agree to disagree. You liked the passes there, thats totally fine. I would have ran 2 more times and possibly gotten a game clinching 1st down. Worst case scenario punting to kst8 with them having to go 80 yds in about 90 seconds with no timeouts and an injured freshman qb but thats just my opinion. Either way i love this team and this coaching staff and feel great about our future. Im sure everyone involved learned from this.

Totally agree!
 

NoCreativity

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
12,460
10,784
113
Des Moines
I doubt that was the plan. Most likely the plan was to complete the pass.

Anyway - I don't get what you are saying. We had the first down. We got what we needed to win the game. Incompetent refs changed that, not Manning. Please explain? We won the game his way... refs changed it. How is that Manning's fault?

So call a play that is high percentage and he can run if there is nothing there. It accomplishes a pass and making them burn a timeout at same time. Asking Kempt to make 2 low percentage throws with defenders all over our receivers is asking for trouble.

The Iowa game was complete opposite, Campbell tried to melt clock away with 7 minutes left instead of going for the kill, now when you need to get conservative with 2 minutes left he does the complete opposite. Both games lost by horrible play calling.
 

Yellow Snow

Full of nonsense....
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Oct 19, 2006
2,498
2,213
113
Osage, IA
So call a play that is high percentage and he can run if there is nothing there. It accomplishes a pass and making them burn a timeout at same time. Asking Kempt to make 2 low percentage throws with defenders all over our receivers is asking for trouble.

The Iowa game was complete opposite, Campbell tried to melt clock away with 7 minutes left instead of going for the kill, now when you need to get conservative with 2 minutes left he does the complete opposite. Both games lost by horrible play calling.

Aren't you a hawk fan? Don't know why you should care....
 
  • Like
Reactions: CyBobby

AngusClone

Member
Sep 3, 2011
95
7
8
Central Iowa
Both Ohio State and Auburn ran the ball at the end of the game. Ohia St stored a touchdown and Auburn left only 8 seconds on the clock. These are just 2 examples of why running the ball is the correct call IMO. You are right that the refs gave the game to KState, but why put yourself in that situation. Also the prevent winning defense on the last drive. Having your DB's 20 yards deep gave KState an easy pass each down. Why change your defense at the end of the game when it had been working all game. Coaches need to trust the players and their game plan at the end of the game also sometimes.

Love this coaching staff and all they have done for ISU. Watching the Cyclones is fun again. Staff is young and will learn and adjust. That is their greatest asset is changing as game progresses. (Their awesome recruiting helps also.) Hope we can keep them for a long time. And GO CYCLONES!!
 

besserheimerphat

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2006
11,482
15,324
113
Mount Vernon, WA
The point here is the wasn't anything wrong with the play call. No matter what, people were going to complain. You could also argue the D played too soft on that last drive, regardless if ISU punted due to running and not picking up the first or threw it twice. Again, those two play calls put or team in a position to be successful and it didn't work out.

Agree - for those complaining that the offense went away from what was working, the defense did the exact same thing on that last drive. KSU had two timeouts, and we ran a prevent with defenders along the boundary and safeties very deep. That left the middle of the field open for easy first down throws, which stops the clock long enough for the coaches to keep in rhythm calling plays.

When their offense hadn't been moving the ball all day, they shouldn't be able to suddenly pick up huge chunks of yardage on the last drive in under two minutes.
 

clonedlion

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2013
1,002
992
63
Agree - for those complaining that the offense went away from what was working, the defense did the exact same thing on that last drive. KSU had two timeouts, and we ran a prevent with defenders along the boundary and safeties very deep. That left the middle of the field open for easy first down throws, which stops the clock long enough for the coaches to keep in rhythm calling plays.

When their offense hadn't been moving the ball all day, they shouldn't be able to suddenly pick up huge chunks of yardage on the last drive in under two minutes.
Couldn't agree more.
 

Cycsk

Year-round tailgater
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Aug 17, 2009
28,412
17,340
113
Yes they should have run the ball and CMC knew it, hence the yelling on the headset. One bad mistake by the coaches in a time crunch. Sure they would just take it back and run the ball if they could huddle first...


I don't think people in this thread are taking this fact seriously enough. Campbell was clearly ticked after that play. And it seemed to be focused on whomever was on the other end of the headset.
 

BillBrasky4Cy

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Dec 10, 2013
17,481
31,793
113
I’ve seen us go the conservative route too many times and lose, so I have no issue with dialing up a play that exposes a huge mismatch. Unfortunately undersized corners are now allowed to bear hug the receiver while the ball is in the air...
 

NoCreativity

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
12,460
10,784
113
Des Moines
My biggest beef with Manning is not the fact that we passed twice, it was the kind of pass that was called, especially on 3rd down.

Kempt doesn't have the arm to be throwing outside the hashes like that. Both passes were also with a defender all over them. If you are going to pass in that situation do something that is safe and can still make them use their timeouts.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: CY88CE11

madguy30

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Nov 15, 2011
57,293
55,199
113
It’s all hindsight. Had we done that and lost, the same people would be in with the “play to win” narrative.

The play to win narrative comes out if the team goes full blown conservative with a lead and something like 6 minutes left.

2 minutes left on their side of the field? 2 time outs for the opponent and the run game getting stronger late? Running is playing to win. A safer pass like hitting up Croney in space at least still lets some time go and forces KSU to respond.

This was such a stupid loss. I hope the players are doing better than I am, haha.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: CyBobby

ruxCYtable

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2007
7,371
4,373
113
Colorado
I don't understand this narrative. Of course it is easy to say now that they should've run, but more and more teams are throwing it in those situations in order to win the game. Carolina Panthers beat the lions on 3rd and seven with a throw, when they could've run it. Week 1, Rodgers did the same thing to the Seahawks.

There is nothing to be gained in questioning that play call. I think 2nd down should've been caught and 3rd should've been pass INT, as well all know. Both were putting ISU players in positions to succeed.

If they run it on 2nd and get stuffed, then what? We get mad if they run it again on 3rd and not try to pick up the first, or we get mad that they throw on third to win the game.

Keep in mind, KSU has a bottom 2 pass defense in the nation. Lazard was in place to make the catch or get interfered with. Both successful spots for ISU and the refs took that from this team, not throwing it on 2nd down.
We run on 2nd, I believe we win. Our o-line was gashing them. They were a beaten down d-line.

Did you not see Campbell cursing out his OC on the headset? Guess he should shut up too.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: ISUguy and BigD

Clonefan32

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2008
23,489
25,936
113
The ball should have been run. End of story. Worst case scenario they have to go 70+ yards with, what, a minute and a half or so with no timeouts. For that offense, thats a huge difference compared to two and a half minutes and 2 timeouts.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: ISUguy and BigD

Help Support Us

Become a patron