After having time to reflect. I am one that likes coaches who take a few risks. I am sure they are questioning their choices after losing. But the game is over. And the ISU football team had great year with several more to come.
Please Stop with "should've run on 2nd"
- Thread starter clonedlion
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He may have wanted to run it and I would've been ok with it, but the fact that you, and others say, "I believe" we would've won does not make it so. I'm sorry, but it doesn't. There were other variables that could've taken place. What if Croney fumbles? What if ISU got any "holding" penalty? What happened, happened and the answer is that Lazard was interfered with and they botched the call. I am not a fan of those that project their feelings into the shoulda, woulda, coulda.
I am not trying to be rude, but unless you could see into the future at that time, we accept reality as it is. Passing plays were run and ISU should've had first and ten after the PI.
I don't get the time out excuse, I've seen replay officials burn several minutes of time to move the spot 3 inches. I think the time could have been "found".
You are missing the point. 2 runs keep the clock moving or force kstate time outs. Without those 2 time outs they don' score. Plus you still have chance to pick up 1st down. Percentages in your favor.
No, you told us that you are good buddies with him and you sit with his family in his suite. Either you were lying then or backtracking now.
One of the risks involved is that an 80 yd drive was not the worst case scenario. KSU is always a threat in the kick return game. It's often the spark that they rely on for offense. It was important to do our best to avoid kicking to them. The previous 4 run plays netted 14 yards. On average, you can expect to pick up 6 yds in 2 tries. KSU knew very well that they absolutely could not give up 6 yds on two run plays. They had their backs to the wall and had no choice but to load up against the run and dare us to pass. The clinching pass option was there for the taking, just not properly executed.
NO. This is ********. Lets suppose we run it and get stuffed, punt on 4th down. WE WIN THE GAME. See? KSU needed every second on the clock, and a lot of help from refs to win that by the skin of their teeth. So stop with this b.s.. The play call was indefensible.
You can't just assume everything would play out the same way though, but what it would do is give KSU less time and no timeouts to go 80 yards or whatever.
No we would not have been griping because we would have won the game. How is this hard to see? KSU needed EVERY SECOND and help from HORRID officiating to win the game. Had we kept the clock running we win the game. Their 2 minute drill turns into a 1 minute drill.
kcbob79clone
Well-Known Member
Respectfully disagree, instead of getting the ball and 2 timeouts and over 2 minutes KSU gets the ball with just over a minute and not timeouts. As Jack Reacher says, "plan for the worst and hope for the best". Well we say the worst play out.
See nice discussion, no 'shut up', no STFU or GTH nobody call you a troll or Hawk troll or Hawk. Yes, I'm still bitter.
Watching the N
They call it correctly, then anything but three runs would've been a horrible game plan.
Play calling would have changed based on circumstance. We don't know what would have happened. What if KSU has no timeouts and first play is a deep ball, breaks a tackle and scores? We don't know and will never know. You're assuming things to make your argument and it is incorrect. Odds may have been on ISU side, but ISU also had the odds when KSU committed pass INT and the flag was thrown.
They call it correctly, then anything but three runs would've been a horrible game plan.
I am just as upset as the next person. My point is that everyone on your side of thought is that ISU automatically wins. That just plain isn't the case. We can also assess what happened. ISU got the first down, period, end of story and the refs took it away.
What if ISU runs it twice and looks like they get the first, but KSU spots it wrong? We don't then start complaining that they didn't pass the ball, we would say, ISU followed normal play calling and still got screwed. Same principle. Just thought it was worth pointing out.
Looking at the play-by-play, KSU went from their own 13 yard line to the ISU 18 yard line in 1:22 without using any timeouts and only going out of bounds once. The play series went 7 yard pass, 7 yard pass (1st down and out of bounds stops the clock), 13 yard pass (1st down stops the clock), 25 yard pass (1st down stops the clock), incomplete pass (stops the clock), 17 yard pass (1st down stops the clock). Letting their receivers run around uncovered beyond the sticks is what allowed them to quickly march down the field, turning a bad situation - 1:55 to go 87 yards with 2 timeouts - into a relatively favorable situation - 0:33 to go 18 yards with 2 timeouts. KSU had 172 yards through 58:05 and then gave up 87 yards in 1:55. The defense and Heacock screwed up just as bad as Manning and the offense, especially considering they had been the relatively better unit most of the year.
http://www.cyclones.com/documents/2017/11/25//KS_20_ISU_19_Final.pdf
http://www.cyclones.com/documents/2017/11/25//KS_20_ISU_19_Final.pdf
I think it's easy in hindsight. But the same strategy did not work against iowa. ISU ran three straight times and forced them to use their time outs. I don't fault Manning for passing there. I thought they should have ran it too, but they went for the pass and their 3rd down play did work.
My bigger issue was going for 2 earlier on. You never go for 2 until you have to. Especially with ISU's struggles in the red zone for most of the game.
Its an old football adage that you never let your opponent have both Timeouts and Time on the Clock...That's why Coach Matt Campbell went ballistic with the 2nd down pass.....
Go Cyclones Lets Win a Bowl Game
Go Cyclones Lets Win a Bowl Game
Should have brought Lanning in, ran it twice, gotten first down and won the game. Our young coaching crew made a mistake and I hope they learned from it. This game still leaves a bad taste in my mouth two days later....
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IMO, this is being overshadowed by the referees...had they not jobbed us and KSU won legitimately, this would be a MUCH bigger issue.
anyone who has been around the game knows that the pass was a terrible play call...whether they made the 1st down or not. CMC knows it but there's no reason to toss your guys under the bus when the more talked about issue is lack luster defense on the ensuing drive and the nut-crushing calls that we didn't get.
believe me, it was a discussion at some point this weekend and it will NEVER happen again.
anyone who has been around the game knows that the pass was a terrible play call...whether they made the 1st down or not. CMC knows it but there's no reason to toss your guys under the bus when the more talked about issue is lack luster defense on the ensuing drive and the nut-crushing calls that we didn't get.
believe me, it was a discussion at some point this weekend and it will NEVER happen again.
