I think the biggest questions to come out of this discussion should be: How many games has Cyclone#1 won as a major college coach? How many teams has he coached into the NCAA tournament? Where is he coaching now? He seems to have the "ability" to evaluate recruits without seeing them, and critique most of the coaches still in the game and/or out of it. How about some credentials?
The McDermott "System"
- Thread starter cyclonenum1
- Start date
He's a legend in his own mind. Don't stop him, he's rolling.
I had no idea the 1986 team was a popular pick for the final four. Hard to believe the NCAA only saw them as a seven seed.
I think you're correct. If we could shoot 36% instead of 31% that would only be a difference of 3 pts a game assuming we shoot 20 a game. Making more 3's would also probably help our inside game a little, and hurt our 2nd chance points by a bucket here or there.
I think it would be difficult to quantify how much "knowing the system" is worth.
No kiddin...so when three of a team's top six players are newcomers (including two pg's, one of which wasn't supposed to see many minutes when he was brought in), and one of them has switched from a power forward to shooting guard, are we supposed to see big time results right away? Could it be that they are getting the system down, they are just too young and physically weak at key positions right now, or does it have to be because McDermott can't get it done at the Big 12 level? Were you expecting to make it the sweet 16 this year with our top returning scorer being dismissed from the team, a key player being ruled ineligible, our starting pg leaving, a walk on pg starting, Wesley Johnson being unhealthy, and us relying hevily on two talented but weak freshmen? Do you think it might take more than a year to get stability into this program?...or is that just inexcusable?
I know McDermott has a lot of plays, but I don't think it should take a player much more than half a season to know the main plays well enough to run them. I'm sure the list of plays available for use is narrowed down significantly each game as well, and players should know most of what to expect.
My opinion is that more improvement in execution will come as players run the plays enough times against different teams -- they can read the defense better and make the best move or pass at a given time. I would think the more time the better with this, and that we'd see improvement in players over the entire four years. This said, I'd still take talent over knowing the system almost any time.
Steve Fisher won the national championship his first year as coach. 2 years later, he made it to the NCAA championship with all 5 starters as freshmen. I just don't buy into giving someone 3 or 4 years to get their act together. Wouldn't a coach have some responsibilty for players transferring or being suspended? I have seen a lot of teams struggle when they won't adapt the "system" to fit the team's talent or depth circumstances.
Right now this team is not underachieving...it has nothing to do with the system. We just aren't as good as other teams are for the time being, and the majority of our talent is young and weak. With time they will get stronger, and that will make a huge difference. And please don't use the fab 5 as a rational that coaches win with freshmen, and should be expected to...the fab 5 will go down as one of college basketball's all time greatest recruiting classes. I do believe coaches should be held responsible for players transferring, being ineligible, etc...but I also believe there are exceptions (like when a guy has a month to put together a recruiting class, or when 3 of your top six players are freshmen).
I agree, I think our fab five of Brackins, Garrett, Boozer, Vette and Steiger stack up favorably to Michigan's. Ours are probably even better.
When McDermott has 5 freshman that all end up playing professional basketball, 4 of them getting drafted in the NBA, 3 of them with more than 10 years of NBA experience and one of them a possible hall of famer, and he doesn't go deep into the tournament, then you can call for his head.
Bo Ryan has a "system." John Belien has a "system." Both have been successful everywhere the coached. The Belien system is not working very well right now, because "_________." You fill in the blanks,(a lot of us are real good at that) but they are getting better. GMcd's system has also worked everywhere he coached. End of story.
Totally agree. Bo Ryan's system is VERY controlled, and he's always had great athletes in it (Devin Harris, Alondo Tucker, now Hughes and Flowers).
Wisconsin hasn't had a tempo (possessions per game) in the top 200 for as long as pomeroy has tracked that stat. In 2004 their tempo was only 61 possessions per game, good for the 314th fastest team in the country, and they went 25-7 and won the BTT. In 2005 they went 25-9 and they had he 297th fastest pace and went to the sweet 16.
In 2006, their tempo was 201st, and they went 19-12 and lost in the first round.
In 2007, their tempo went back up to 289th and they went 30-6. One of these is not like the other. Let's face it, the speed of play and the system is not the problem here. The problem here is the injuries, lack of talent, inexperience, and discontinuity in the program. None of those things can be fixed overnight as much as we would all like it to.
The amount of time it takes to learn a system depends on the player. Every player regardless of talent or the type of system goes through 4 stages.
1) Unconsciously Incompetent: players don't know that they are doing anything wrong
2) Consciously Incompetent: players understand what they are doing wrong but still make lots of mistakes
3) Consciously Competent: players do the right things but they have to think about it
4) Unconsciously Competent: players do the right things without having to think about it
The hardest part as a coach is getting a player from stage 1 to stage 2. Convincing them that the system is a good one and that it will make them better is not easy. It is also a difficult decision when a player is talented enough to be better than others even when they are in stage 1. How strict should you be with them? How much are they hurting their overall potential by not playing within the system? Once a player has gotten to stage 2 it is a matter of repetition and experience to get them to stage 4. Some progress quickly, others more slowly. Once they get to stage 4, that is when the game "slows down" for them. If you can get 5 players on the floor that are in stage 4 at both ends of the floor, thats when coaching gets easy. I think that those people that don't like coach Mac being such a control freak don't realize that he is trying to get all of his guys to stage 4. You don't progress if you don't run the system, so he is very strict on what the team does. If you look at how he coached his last year at UNI he was much more hands off. Give it time.
1) Unconsciously Incompetent: players don't know that they are doing anything wrong
2) Consciously Incompetent: players understand what they are doing wrong but still make lots of mistakes
3) Consciously Competent: players do the right things but they have to think about it
4) Unconsciously Competent: players do the right things without having to think about it
The hardest part as a coach is getting a player from stage 1 to stage 2. Convincing them that the system is a good one and that it will make them better is not easy. It is also a difficult decision when a player is talented enough to be better than others even when they are in stage 1. How strict should you be with them? How much are they hurting their overall potential by not playing within the system? Once a player has gotten to stage 2 it is a matter of repetition and experience to get them to stage 4. Some progress quickly, others more slowly. Once they get to stage 4, that is when the game "slows down" for them. If you can get 5 players on the floor that are in stage 4 at both ends of the floor, thats when coaching gets easy. I think that those people that don't like coach Mac being such a control freak don't realize that he is trying to get all of his guys to stage 4. You don't progress if you don't run the system, so he is very strict on what the team does. If you look at how he coached his last year at UNI he was much more hands off. Give it time.
I don't have to be an astronaut that has walked on the moon to know it's not made of cheese!
I have coached...certainly never at a major college. Then again, I have never claimed that I did.
I have not evaluated any recruits here on this site. I have just expressed some sincere skepticism about kids from small Nebraska towns that score 30 a night being able to translate that into dramatic impact at a major college BB program. The examples being given to the contrary (Mike Miller, etc) notwithstanding...the reality is that it is the exception, rather than the rule, to see this type of kid excel on the next level (assuming a major DI program).
At the end of the day, if it is required that we have coached an NCAA team in order to comment on a coach or that we have played at a major college in order to comment on the players at ISU then my guess is that there would be virtually no discussion at all on this board.
Maybe, we should only allow former Presidents to vote for President too! How can the rest of us idiots possibly know what it takes to be President?!
After they beat Michigan in the Metrodome to get to the Sweet 16, many, including Sports Illustrated, picked a hot and talented ISU team to make it to the Final Four.
During the 95-96 season Floyd took a team with 4 of the 5 starters having never suited up for ISU before the season began to the Sweet 16.
Actually that group of players lost to Utah in the 2nd round, their senior year they made the sweet 16...also keep in mind all 5 starters were juniors. There is a big difference that you don't seem to grasp between a junior and a freshman. Where were you when McDermott said, if you want a quick fix, you've got the wrong guy? Were you continually questioning everything the guy did then, or did you just assume he meant to give him one year?
We may just barely eke into the NIT this year. I would suspect the loss of Jiri and Rashon would mean we would be about the same next year unless Lucca shoots light out. We need a real shooter from the perimeter.
Yet times are changing. You think Linkliter will have a free pass for 3-4 years at Iowa? He is 7-8 and going nowehere this year.
