The real problem with this team

[cyclonenum1]

Here we go with "Johnny Orr would have won". He is a great coach, wonderful character and we are lucky to have him on our side. But those of you old enough to remember have to recognize that some of the worst ***-kickings I have ever seen were taken by Orr-lead teams whenever we went on the road. Great at Hilton, absolutely blown out by good teams on the road.

You go ahead and crap all over our history...which, by the way, was a hell of a lot better than our current state of affairs relative to MBB.

Did we beat a top ranked Michigan team in the NCAA Tournament in Hilton? Did we beat a top 10 Purdue team in the NIT Preseason Tournament in Hilton? No, we beat Michigan in Minneapolis and Purdue in West Lafayette.

Yeah, that HOME LOSS last year to SD or SDSU (I don't know which it was and it is really irrelevant) sure tasted good didn't it?

 

[mt85]

Hypothetical question.

Let's say for a moment that the drama/ego issues coming out in the other thread are legit. How do you coach a team hard if the players threaten to "take their ball and go home" (transfer, quit, etc.) If they don't get their way?

I mean, it'd be nice to just call their bluff and work their butts off, but the program is already under ptessure. I don't think it can afford another mass exodus...

To be successful as a coach, you have to be able to break the will of the individual for the sake of the team. Being soft as a coach will not accomplish that goal.

A big part of recruiting is attempting to identify not only talented players, but players that have the mental makeup to succeed as a team.

Right now it is pretty clear we have talented players, but they are not buying into the principles necessary to succeed as a team. At this point there is nothing to lose by getting tough because they aren't going to win unless they buy into playing as a team.

If players leave as a result, what are you really losing? They aren't going to win if they stay on the current path.

 

[weR138]

Agree completely.

I'm convinced some people here are still wearing their Zubaz and Hypercolor shirts.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I know you're frustrated but let's not bring my wardrobe into this.

 

[Torks Pub]

You go ahead and crap all over our history...which, by the way, was a hell of a lot better than our current state of affairs relative to MBB.

Did we beat a top ranked Michigan team in the NCAA Tournament in Hilton? Did we beat a top 10 Purdue team in the NIT Preseason Tournament in Hilton? No, we beat Michigan in Minneapolis and Purdue in West Lafayette.

Yeah, that HOME LOSS last year to SD or SDSU (I don't know which it was and it is really irrelevant) sure tasted good didn't it?

We had some pretty good efforts in KC at the Big 8 tourney as well.

 

[CTAClone]

This +1

Effort, heart, nastiness, will to work --- whatever you want to call it....


I hate to say it but the effort needed is not born in the kids, it is created by the head coach imo. Practice needs to be a nightmare - every day.

Are you really a coach? Some people bball IQ really shows sometimes. This is not the answer. Yes there are times you can make it a nightmare, but a lot of times during the season you can't. You do this you won't have any players available to play come game time, and half your team is gone from transfers. I'm not saying you can't ever do it, but every day? Come on!! Lets get realistic.

 

[GeronimusClone]

Agree completely.

I'm convinced some people here are still wearing their Zubaz and Hypercolor shirts.

Zubaz are still fashionable.

 

[GeronimusClone]

Are you really a coach? Some people bball IQ really shows sometimes. This is not the answer. Yes there are times you can make it a nightmare, but a lot of times during the season you can't. You do this you won't have any players available to play come game time, and half your team is gone from transfers. I'm not saying you can't ever do it, but every day? Come on!! Lets get realistic.

Ask Mike Leach.

 

[CTAClone]

Give a Johnny Orr in his prime this team last night and they beat Duke.

I'd agree with this statement IF we played at Hilton. People forget that Johnny Orr's teams were great at home, not so great away.

 

[DaddyMac]

Last night was the first I have seen of ISU this year. Frankly, I was very impressed with the overall talent level of the team. We definitely have some guys that can play.

However, there are some issues that appear (IMO) to be causing us problems:

+ We do not play with enough tenacity on either end of the court. On offense we do not fight for position and try to get what we want. Often this leads to starting our half court offense much further out than is desired. On defense we we do not fight to deny what the other team is doing and we allow far too many offensive rebounds.

+ The roles and playing rotation do not seem to be understood by everyone on the team. I think there is confusion about who is being expected to do what job on both ends of the court. I am also not sure McDermott is giving the right guys the most minutes and using the right combinations.

+ This team looked much better in transition than they did in the half court offense. I believe they really need to try and push the issue in terms of going up-tempo as opposed to just taking it when it is there.

What is amazing is some posters in this thread want to lay all this at the feet of the kids. Sorry, that dog is not hunting here...I am laying it at the feet of the guy that gets paid the most in the MBB program...our head coach.

We have the talent to have a very good season and surprise some people this year (make no mistake...Duke could have been had last night) but we appear to have a coach that does not understand how to inspire the kids at this level (kids that are hoping to impress NBA scouts) and how to effectively capitalize on the talent on his team to win games.

Give a Johnny Orr in his prime this team last night and they beat Duke.

Or lose by 20 like most of his teams against, well ANY competition on the road.

This love affair with Johnny being such a great coach still amazes me. I went to ISU for 5 years, all of them during Johnny's tenure. He was an electric personality. But he's barely over .500 as a coach at ISU and his teams were KNOWN for not being able to play on the road.

You know why it was "Hilton Magic" - not only was it because we beat everyone there - but also because it was damn near the only place we won.

 

[CentralNebCy]

I agree that the pimary (not only) problem is coaching. There is no shame in losing to Duke. Lots of teams will do that this year. But I still see the ISU players making the same fundamental basketball mistakes. That is coaching.

But hey, we do have some good players. Maybe, just maybe.....

 

[aauummm]

Here we go with "Johnny Orr would have won". He is a great coach, wonderful character and we are lucky to have him on our side. But those of you old enough to remember have to recognize that some of the worst ***-kickings I have ever seen were taken by Orr-lead teams whenever we went on the road. Great at Hilton, absolutely blown out by good teams on the road.

I agree and I remember those teams very well. I went to a lot of those games. Some people just don't have very good memories of how past teams really were.

 

[CyBobby]

The real problem with this team...is that the coach is a DUD!!!!!!

 

[CyBobby]

Duke is the #5 ranked team in the country for a reason. Also, they have a Hall of Fame coach. ISU will be better in the long run for playing this game. Still early. Have faith.

So what duke is no 5!! Johnny beat KU with danny manning that won the ncaa tourney....


You think McDud is up to beating teams like that inside Hilton? I dont and mcdud was a bad hire and here we go again, stuck with another lame losing coach for another 7 years....

Here's looking forward to an emptier hilton aka Lynn Nance years!!!!!!

 

[DaddyMac]

The real problem with this team...is that the coach is a DUD!!!!!!

How clever.

 

[cy2win]

Or lose by 20 like most of his teams against, well ANY competition on the road.

This love affair with Johnny being such a great coach still amazes me. I went to ISU for 5 years, all of them during Johnny's tenure. He was an electric personality. But he's barely over .500 as a coach at ISU and his teams were KNOWN for not being able to play on the road.

You know why it was "Hilton Magic" - not only was it because we beat everyone there - but also because it was damn near the only place we won.

Were you at hilton for the hornacek, stevens, and grayer years? I don't think so otherwise you wouldn't post this. I agree Johnny fell off in the 90's, but those teams with hornacek were great. you also don't realize how the refs screwed johnny over and over. if johnny got have the calls tf and le got, johnny would have at least a big 8 tourny championship.

 

[jbhtexas]

Are you really a coach? Some people bball IQ really shows sometimes. This is not the answer. Yes there are times you can make it a nightmare, but a lot of times during the season you can't. You do this you won't have any players available to play come game time, and half your team is gone from transfers. I'm not saying you can't ever do it, but every day? Come on!! Lets get realistic.

I agree with what you are saying, which is why I have very low expectations for the rest of the season. The way you change bad behavior is by running nasty drills with brutal consequences. Rebounding drill or during the scrimmage...somebody doesn't box out...you put the whole team on the line for sprints (or some other running drill)...and you continue to do that until everytime a shot goes up, every defender grabs his man and gets him on his hip to box him out. If the offense players lighten up so the defenders can grab a rebound, you put the whole team on the line for sprints. Day after day...

But you really can't do this kind of stuff every day during a season with 2 games a week without wearing the players out. So once you are mid-season, it becomes very difficult to change bad behavior. Preparing for the next opponent leaves very little time for fundamentals (re)training. This basic stuff (like rebounding) needs to get worked out early in the season, and that just doesn't seem to be happening at ISU.

 

[DaddyMac]

Were you at hilton for the hornacek, stevens, and grayer years? I don't think so otherwise you wouldn't post this. I agree Johnny fell off in the 90's, but those teams with hornacek were great. you also don't realize how the refs screwed johnny over and over. if johnny got have the calls tf and le got, johnny would have at least a big 8 tourny championship.

No, but I was here for the Hoiberg, Meyer, Thigpen, Bayless, etc years and produced similar records.

 

[cyclonenum1]

I agree with what you are saying, which is why I have very low expectations for the rest of the season. The way you change bad behavior is by running nasty drills with brutal consequences. Rebounding drill or during the scrimmage...somebody doesn't box out...you put the whole team on the line for sprints (or some other running drill)...and you continue to do that until everytime a shot goes up, every defender grabs his man and gets him on his hip to box him out. If the offense players lighten up so the defenders can grab a rebound, you put the whole team on the line for sprints. Day after day...

But you really can't do this kind of stuff every day during a season with 2 games a week without wearing the players out. So once you are mid-season, it becomes very difficult to change bad behavior. Preparing for the next opponent leaves very little time for fundamentals (re)training. This basic stuff (like rebounding) needs to get worked out early in the season, and that just doesn't seem to be happening at ISU.

Well, you can...but then you lose in the NCAA Tournament as a #2 seed to a #15 seeded Hampton and get reminded of it every year in March for ever more.

 

[Oldgeezer]

Originally Posted by cyclonenum1

Last night was the first I have seen of ISU this year

Funny! Judging by your comments since Nov. 1 I would have guessed you had seen every game, and about half of the practice sessions.
​

 

[cjclone]

So what duke is no 5!! Johnny beat KU with danny manning that won the ncaa tourney....


You think McDud is up to beating teams like that inside Hilton? I dont and mcdud was a bad hire and here we go again, stuck with another lame losing coach for another 7 years....

Here's looking forward to an emptier hilton aka Lynn Nance years!!!!!!

Kansas record with Danny Manning that year on Stat sheet
Record27-11
They were third in the conference that year or lower if I rememer correctly. Iowa also beat them that year. The championship game was the single best performance I have seen by an individual who gave it his all without a great supporting cast. There have been others that have dominated in the tournament but I have never seen anyone that gave their all like he did that game. I had always thought he was overrated until that performance.