*****The Super, Mega, Huge Big 12 Expansion Thread*****

[aeroclone]

You think that the Big 12 wouldn't allow them to keep their NBC deal later? What, are they going to pull that offer off the table? I highly doubt it. That deal will still be there if **** hits the fan in a few years. There is no reason to join a conference right now.

You are totally missing the point. If the **** hits the fan in a few years to where ND would be forced into a conference, the Big 12 offer on the NBC deal won't matter because there won't be a Big 12.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

ND wouldn't be involved for the most part. You're allowing them to have their NBC deal remember.

There is a reason the Big 12 is moving to 9 conference games, the Pac 12 is keeping 9 conference games, and the Big 10 will be playing 9 conference games in the near future. Sure, if every team in the Big 12 went out and scheduled two other BCS teams, it wouldn't matter at all. Is that likely though? You really think Baylor, TTech, KSU, Kansas, etc are going to go out and schedule BCS teams, or are they going to pad their scheduleto get bowl eligible?

I don't see that being an issue.

In 2008 Baylor scheduled UCONN, Wake Forest, and Washington State. In 2009 they scheduled Wake Forest, and UCONN.

K-State had UCLA the last 2 years and has scheduled Miami(FL) this year so it appears they may be moving on from the years they scheduled 2 FCS teams to play.

Kansas has Georgia Tech again this year (beat them last year in Lawrence), they had a series with USF prior to that (when USF was actually ranked).

Texas Tech well.... that will be the toughest one because I am not sure they have EVER played a BCS team in their non conference schedule. Their schedule is an embarrassment.


I don't think it will be quite as big of a deal as everyone wants to make it out to be. Other then Texas Tech pretty much every Big XII school plays a solid BCS conference team in their non-conference portion of the schedule and have for quite some time. (K-State just recently started this)

 

[Clark]

FB Independence = Network Independence

The only serious conference overtures previously made to ND was from the B10 who would force ND to give up their NBC contract and 3rd tier rights. That was a deal breaker for ND.

Why this summer? Because the B12 plays by different rules. ND can keep their NBC contract and operate their own 3rd Tier network in the B12.

And the reason why ND needs to consider the B12 NOW is that the B12 may not exist when ND is forced to join a conference in the future. It could be now or never for ND to join a conference under their terms.

I'm not denying that that's a good deal for ND as compared to the Big 10. The Big 12 isn't going anywhere. That being said, lets pretend that the 1% chance that the Big 12 folds comes true. What's stopping Texas and ND from building their own conference with whatever tv rules they choose?

Again, I won't go so far as to say that ND won't ever join the Big 12, but you are shortchanging ND quite a bit to think that they HAVE to do anything right now.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

I think this is the key difference between this year and last year. For all the talk last year, nobody went past 12 teams, and the Big East and Big 12 were left in some viable form. With the move of aTm to the SEC, this is a whole different animal. The SEC won't want to stay at 13, so they either need to move to 14 or 16. Those additional teams will come at the expense of the Big 12, ACC, or Big East. The Big Ten will look to respond and also expand to 14 or 16 to make sure they can get their picks, and at that point the Big 12 is history so the Pac can swoop in and move to 16 as well. Where exactly ND ends up here doesn't really matter.

That leaves ND moving into a super conference where they don't have near the power and independence they could get from moving to the Big 12 today. This is the most independent long term option they have. A strong Big 12 with ND, BYU and a third is not going anywhere, and neither are any of its members. Without the Big 12 collapse the Pac has nowhere to grow, and it would seem a lot less likely that the Big Ten goes to 16 either. In this case, you may only see the SEC go to 14 by poaching the ACC, the ACC steals one from the Big East to stay at 12, and the Big East ends up right back at 8 where they started. ND keeps the NBC deal, launches their own network, and we setup a 7 game schedule to give them flexibility, and maybe find a way to assure an annual matchup with Texas with protected rivalries or something. For their other sports, they get a decent upgrade from the Big East.

ND has the option to dictate their own endgame here and protect their own interest right now, or have it dictated to them in a few years. The only way I can see this shaking out without ND being forced into a conference is if Arkansas comes to the Big 12 so that neither the Big 12 or the SEC needs to add any other teams, and I see no chance of that actually happening.

This post has summed the ND situation up perfectly. Become a partner with other schools now in the Big XII or become somebodies ***** in a few years. Seems like a fairly simple choice. Power hungry fools like Scott, Slive, and Delaney won't stop until they destroy college football. The only way to stop them is to solidify the confereces as they are now and leave them with no real options for expansion unless they want to raid the MAC, WAC, or some other insignificant non-BCS conference.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

I'm not denying that that's a good deal for ND as compared to the Big 10. The Big 12 isn't going anywhere. That being said, lets pretend that the 1% chance that the Big 12 folds comes true. What's stopping Texas and ND from building their own conference with whatever tv rules they choose?

Again, I won't go so far as to say that ND won't ever join the Big 12, but you are shortchanging ND quite a bit to think that they HAVE to do anything right now.

If the Big XII collapses people are going to be blaming Texas for blowing up their second conference in the last 20 years. Now why in the hell would anybody want to join a conference that Texas is putting together themselves? Right now in the current Big XII teams still have a chance to compete. If Texas forms their own conference then nobody will ever have a chance to compete against them. Nobody would want to join them.

 

[Boxerdaddy]

This post has summed the ND situation up perfectly. Become a partner with other schools now in the Big XII or become somebodies ***** in a few years. Seems like a fairly simple choice. Power hungry fools like Scott, Slive, and Delaney won't stop until they destroy college football. The only way to stop them is to solidify the confereces as they are now and leave them with no real options for expansion unless they want to raid the MAC, WAC, or some other insignificant non-BCS conference.

ND doesn't have to do anything now. There will be a seat any any table for them, should the landscape of college fb change significantly.

That being said I'd love to have ND in the conference...who wouldn't. But you're fooling yourself if you think they need to do something now for fear of being left out. I see what you're saying about solidifying the conference structure if they joined...but i'm guessing they're looking out for themselves first and worrying about the rest of college fb a distant fourth.

 

[trajanJ]

This post has summed the ND situation up perfectly. Become a partner with other schools now in the Big XII or become somebodies ***** in a few years. Seems like a fairly simple choice. Power hungry fools like Scott, Slive, and Delaney won't stop until they destroy college football. The only way to stop them is to solidify the confereces as they are now and leave them with no real options for expansion unless they want to raid the MAC, WAC, or some other insignificant non-BCS conference.

I agree but I don't think ND has any interest in the Big 12 the way it is right now. I also don't think BYU wants to join either. If the Big 12 settles for Houston they are setting them self up for being raided. That's why I wouldn't be surprised if ND and Texas are talking about forming their own conference where they handpick who they want out of the Big 12 and Big East and maybe somebody like BYU. Neither wants to be a part of 16 team super conference so they form a 12 team conference that is so powerful it pretty much ends the chances of super conferences forming.

 

[CarrollCyclone]

This Aggie joke is on the Longhorns - Houston Chronicle

 

[daphins]

I agree but I don't think ND has any interest in the Big 12 the way it is right now. I also don't think BYU wants to join either. If the Big 12 settles for Houston they are setting them self up for being raided. That's why I wouldn't be surprised if ND and Texas are talking about forming their own conference where they handpick who they want out of the Big 12 and Big East and maybe somebody like BYU. Neither wants to be a part of 16 team super conference so they form a 12 team conference that is so powerful it pretty much ends the chances of super conferences forming.

I don't buy it. Texas doesn't want a conference full of studs...neither too OK. I think Texas will try to make the conference as stable as it can for as long as it needs/wants it. If that means it starts it's own conference when the shift happens, then so be it. I think they'll TRY to get quality programs like BYU and ND to join, but I question whether they'll be successful. Outside of Mizzou right now there is no one looking flee to another conference...Add a quality programs like BYU and ND and it'll be as solid as anything else they could come up with down the road. They have unequal revenue sharing, their own network, and they can beat the tar out of ISU, Baylor, Kansas, Tech, K-State, etc. for most of the season winning only a few games to be a BCS contender. I don't think they're looking to make a conference at this point at all. Texas has what it wants...now it just needs to keep it IMO.

 

[NobodyBeatsCy]

Thought something might break today - Oh well.

 

[CyBer]

This thread is why A&M sucks so much.

 

[Clonefan94]

If the Big XII collapses people are going to be blaming Texas for blowing up their second conference in the last 20 years. Now why in the hell would anybody want to join a conference that Texas is putting together themselves? Right now in the current Big XII teams still have a chance to compete. If Texas forms their own conference then nobody will ever have a chance to compete against them. Nobody would want to join them.

Because they won't be allowed to join the afterparty. If we get to 4 superconferences, there won't be room for anyone outside of that to claim a national championship.

 

[trajanJ]

I don't buy it. Texas doesn't want a conference full of studs...neither too OK. I think Texas will try to make the conference as stable as it can for as long as it needs/wants it. If that means it starts it's own conference when the shift happens, then so be it. I think they'll TRY to get quality programs like BYU and ND to join, but I question whether they'll be successful. Outside of Mizzou right now there is no one looking flee to another conference...Add a quality programs like BYU and ND and it'll be as solid as anything else they could come up with down the road. They have unequal revenue sharing, their own network, and they can beat the tar out of ISU, Baylor, Kansas, Tech, K-State, etc. for most of the season winning only a few games to be a BCS contender. I don't think they're looking to make a conference at this point at all. Texas has what it wants...now it just needs to keep it IMO.

I don't think ND will join the conference as it is and it sounds like BYU might not be interested if ND isn't. If we bandaid this with a team like Houston MU and the Oklahoma schools will be looking to go. Then Texas won't have the conference they want and they will end up forced to pick a super conference.

 

[CyBer]

This whole situation is Texas and all of the Texas teams fault. I say we leave and invite everyone not full of drama.

 

[cyhawkdmb]

This whole situation is Texas and all of the Texas teams fault. I say we leave and invite everyone not full of drama.

Im going to assume your being serious with this post....

 

[everyyard]

I don't buy it. Texas doesn't want a conference full of studs...neither too OK. I think Texas will try to make the conference as stable as it can for as long as it needs/wants it. If that means it starts it's own conference when the shift happens, then so be it. I think they'll TRY to get quality programs like BYU and ND to join, but I question whether they'll be successful. Outside of Mizzou right now there is no one looking flee to another conference...Add a quality programs like BYU and ND and it'll be as solid as anything else they could come up with down the road. They have unequal revenue sharing, their own network, and they can beat the tar out of ISU, Baylor, Kansas, Tech, K-State, etc. for most of the season winning only a few games to be a BCS contender. I don't think they're looking to make a conference at this point at all. Texas has what it wants...now it just needs to keep it IMO.

Might want to check to big XII record books here. K-State, I believe, has a winning record vs Texas in BigXII play, but I haven't looked it up.

 

[Al_4_State]

I think this is the key difference between this year and last year. For all the talk last year, nobody went past 12 teams, and the Big East and Big 12 were left in some viable form. With the move of aTm to the SEC, this is a whole different animal. The SEC won't want to stay at 13, so they either need to move to 14 or 16. Those additional teams will come at the expense of the Big 12, ACC, or Big East. The Big Ten will look to respond and also expand to 14 or 16 to make sure they can get their picks, and at that point the Big 12 is history so the Pac can swoop in and move to 16 as well. Where exactly ND ends up here doesn't really matter.

That leaves ND moving into a super conference where they don't have near the power and independence they could get from moving to the Big 12 today. This is the most independent long term option they have. A strong Big 12 with ND, BYU and a third is not going anywhere, and neither are any of its members. Without the Big 12 collapse the Pac has nowhere to grow, and it would seem a lot less likely that the Big Ten goes to 16 either. In this case, you may only see the SEC go to 14 by poaching the ACC, the ACC steals one from the Big East to stay at 12, and the Big East ends up right back at 8 where they started. ND keeps the NBC deal, launches their own network, and we setup a 7 game schedule to give them flexibility, and maybe find a way to assure an annual matchup with Texas with protected rivalries or something. For their other sports, they get a decent upgrade from the Big East.

ND has the option to dictate their own endgame here and protect their own interest right now, or have it dictated to them in a few years. The only way I can see this shaking out without ND being forced into a conference is if Arkansas comes to the Big 12 so that neither the Big 12 or the SEC needs to add any other teams, and I see no chance of that actually happening.

This is exactly why it makes it sense for ND to join the Big 12.

Yes, no matter what happens, they would find a home. But at that point, they won't have any leverage and be forced into something like the B10N. If they join the Big 12 now, they can ensure their own Network in the future, and prevent Superconferences. They will have a much more agreeable conference set up than if they say "no" and try to stay Independent, only to be forced into the Big 10 in a few more years.

 

[alarson]

Might want to check to big XII record books here. K-State, I believe, has a winning record vs Texas in BigXII play, but I haven't looked it up.

Correct.

 

[LindenCy]

Correct.

Wow, 2 losses by a combined 7 points.

 

[MNCyGuy]

Wow, 2 losses by a combined 7 points.

nevermind