TJ Mutcherson/Angelo Hadley to ISU?!

CYphyllis

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I agree with your statement but where do you draw the line? Also thank you for not attacking me. I really appreciate. Its like talking to a bunch of immature children with all of the personal attacks. Especially when our new recruiting analyst has to do this.

So it's completely ok for you to attack the character of a person (Hadley), but to be attacked back is just ridiculous?
 

CloneFan4

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So it's completely ok for you to attack the character of a person (Hadley), but to be attacked back is just ridiculous?

I never said anything against his character. I was talking about his incident. I've said that multiple times but you can't get that through your thick head.
 

ripvdub

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Was he a member of the ISU football team at that point?
does that mean that you would be all for DJK or Pierre Pierce transferring to ISU since they
Didn't do anything wrong in Ames, IA? I'm all for second chances, but the arguement that he wasn't a Clone at the time is kinda weak . We need talent, I hope everyone did their homework before offering him.
 

CYVADER

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i think for kids with character flaws, Ames is a great place to be-way easier to stay out of trouble in a town like Ames, then say Tampa IMO. i would bet the coaching staff uses this when recruiting these types.
 

Tre4ISU

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Go ahead and be unhappy. I'm sure Paul doesn't care. You know which teams always harp the "Honor and Morals" meme? Teams that lose. No winning team talks about that.



It's not that I'm unhappy because I'm pumped to see us in contention for recruits with this kind of talent. No I don't know that she was in 8th grade but I do know she was 14. Either way there's no way in hell you can say that this is ethically ok for him to do.

I agree, but that's how my moral compass works, not everyones. I do know a couple, who would have been the same ages when they first dated. There was no ill will there. Of course, he didn't rob her house but in terms of just the relationship I'm not ready to throw the kid under the bus. I have to think if there was any ill will here, there would have been more hefty charges and he would be a sex offender.

I agree with your statement but where do you draw the line? Also thank you for not attacking me. I really appreciate. Its like talking to a bunch of immature children with all of the personal attacks. Especially when our new recruiting analyst has to do this.

Personal attacks? There were no personal attacks. People were diagreeing on how this situation should be handled. My points are these and these only:

-No one here knows the full story on the sexual part of this
-Is the theft and robbery bad? Yes. It also happened two years ago and I have not found that he has been in any more trouble since then.
-Two coaching staffs, not just ISU, have found that this kid is worthy of becoming part of their program. My guess is that they are aware of these issues and have talked to the kid, coaches, etc. to find out just where this kid is heading and if/how he has switched his life around.
-I am not typically someone who judges people morals. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, I just don't do it. Do I care about morals in terms of the football program? Yes, but in terms of our football program, we have not been and never will be perfect in terms of behavior. This kid is a risk, I'm not saying he's not, but based on recent behavior he seems to have turned himself around.
-I will usually side on the side of athletic merit when it comes up against past behavioral issues. I guess it's how I'm wired. I think there has to be a certain amount of risk taken to get programs to a higher level, especially right now. I don't think we are in a position to be picky on these terms, especially when none of this happened when ISU was involved. FWIW, I think the David Sims situation should have been of more concern to us because it happened under this program and was a poor reflection of us.
-If this kid can come in, behave, and perform on the field, when he is done, no one is going to talk about this. On the flip side, if he get's in trouble then the staff should and will be criticized for this poor choice. I will be one of them criticizing. It's their job to evaluate these things and make the right decisions. For now, I trust them.

That's it. I didn't not mean to imply a personal attack. If you thought it was, I apologize.
 

Tre4ISU

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does that mean that you would be all for DJK or Pierre Pierce transferring to ISU since they
Didn't do anything wrong in Ames, IA? I'm all for second chances, but the arguement that he wasn't a Clone at the time is kinda weak . We need talent, I hope everyone did their homework before offering him.

That's a good point. I do think there is something to the fact that those happened very close and in Hadleys case he has been removed from the area of incident for a year and a half and would still be removed from all those surroundings.
 

mt85

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I agree with your statement but where do you draw the line? Also thank you for not attacking me. I really appreciate. Its like talking to a bunch of immature children with all of the personal attacks. Especially when our new recruiting analyst has to do this.

Once someone has paid whatever restitution is required by law for their past indiscretions then that person should be free to pursue being a productive member of society. That includes getting an education and playing football. If ISU gives him that opportunity there will certainly be a risk that he will dissappoint us, but that is true (most likely to a lessor degree) with any player regardless of their past.


If you give someone a second chance and they fail, does that reflect more poorly on the party given a second chance or the person willing to give him that opportunity?
 

UNIGuy4Cy

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does that mean that you would be all for DJK or Pierre Pierce transferring to ISU since they
Didn't do anything wrong in Ames, IA? I'm all for second chances, but the arguement that he wasn't a Clone at the time is kinda weak . We need talent, I hope everyone did their homework before offering him.
I agree and disagree, you are talking about 22 year old mistakes, this guy was 18 and still in HS.
 

Cyclophile1

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i think for kids with character flaws, Ames is a great place to be-way easier to stay out of trouble in a town like Ames, then say Tampa IMO. i would bet the coaching staff uses this when recruiting these types.

I think the coaches get the chance top get to know these recruits pretty well and gauge the overall character. The overall culture of the program is clean and focused on doing things the right way. That culture can be used to help these kinds of 'at risk' kids stay in line, off the beaten path of the typical big city fast life and some of the inertia its distractions and problems. Some recruits could see that as a big plus - getting away from some pretty horrible urban situations and concentrate on football and getting an education.

I think the overall family atmosphere and clean program can provide an opportunity for a couple of these risks each year - if there is reasonable assurance that the kid is of the proper mindset and willing to do things that meet the culture's standards for accountability and responsibility. That said, there is line there somewhere that we do not want to cross where we are taking to many risks and there is too large a segment of risky players on the team that increases the likelihood that the bad apples will gravitate to each other and continue/revert into some bad habits, behaviors and decisions. This ultimately leads to team unity problems, off field problems and degrades the overall culture.

I think a program like ISU can afford one or two calculated risks in each class, and frankly, we probably will have a hard time moving up the ladder in the new Big XII without taking a few risks. I trust the staff and CPR to have a handle on knowing these kids and most of all keeping the culture one that kids RISE up to meet the standards for performance, effort and character. Some will make it and others - even those who didn't appear to bed 'bad eggs' when recuited - will not. There is honor is providing some kids a chance to put the past behind them and make a new life for themselves in a great situation.

Cheers
 

Trainer

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If you give someone a second chance and they fail, does that reflect more poorly on the party given a second chance or the person willing to give him that opportunity?

I really like this. And would add that if we do get burned we cannot say poor us. We knew the risk we were taking and took it.

I am all for second chances. The criminal justice system works to keep young criminals out of the pen as long as they believe the kids have learned their lesson.

I do not know if this is fact but someone said earlier that the parents of the girl wanted the court to not put this guy on the sex offender list. That alone says to me that there is a lot of things going on here. The parents hadn't completely written this kid off and neither should we!
 

Cyclone1985

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You all criticize Iowa for all that has happened yet we all are chomping at the bit for a guy that screwed an 8th grader in his Senior year and then let his brother rob the girls home. I take pride in knowing that we do things the right way and I'm not comfortable knowing that someone with that kind of background could ruin it.

He was 17. I was a JUNIOR when I was 17. A junior getting on a freshman isnt a big deal. Pretty sure there are 14 year old sophomores too. How do we know they hadn't been dating since middle school?

Scenario:
Mom and Dad come home to a robbed house.
mom- What the hell happened?
girl- looks like we were robbed.
mom- werent you home?!
girl- yeah.
mom- where were you.
girl- in my room.
mom- with who?
girl- Angelo
mom- was he touching you?!?!?! Call the cops! and make sure they bring a rape kit!

Everyone jumps to conclusions WAY too quickly.
 
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mt85

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I really like this. And would add that if we do get burned we cannot say poor us. We knew the risk we were taking and took it.

I am all for second chances. The criminal justice system works to keep young criminals out of the pen as long as they believe the kids have learned their lesson.

I do not know if this is fact but someone said earlier that the parents of the girl wanted the court to not put this guy on the sex offender list. That alone says to me that there is a lot of things going on here. The parents hadn't completely written this kid off and neither should we!


I would just like to add these thoughts. What if there was no one that would offer a second chance? It is easy to say not in my back yard, but if everyone took that stance where would that lead? Wouldn't society be insuring that they fail in the future?
 
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Clonefan32

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This seems pretty simple to me:

CPR won't bring in anyone he believes will do anything to put embarass the University. He must have decided that this kid grew from it and is not prone to break the law again.

Plus, didn't we have this same conversation about Royce White? He seems to be on the straight-and-narrow now...
 

CloneIce

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This. A lot of you guys sound like hawkeyes. I can't believe we would bring a player in with this kind of a background. Honor before Victory!

I have a feeling that, just maybe, CPR and the rest of his staff (as well as the USF coaching staff) know the kid a little better and no just a bit more about this situation than you. I trust our coaches (and South Florida's coaches) opinions on this kid much more than somebody who just learned his name for the first time this morning.

If CPR wants him, then I want him too.
 

CloneIce

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You all criticize Iowa for all that has happened yet we all are chomping at the bit for a guy that screwed an 8th grader in his Senior year and then let his brother rob the girls home. I take pride in knowing that we do things the right way and I'm not comfortable knowing that someone with that kind of background could ruin it.

How would he "ruin it"? Seriously. If he gets in trouble again, he gets kicked off the team, life goes on, the football team and program moves on, nothing is ruined. I bet your one of the geniuses who thought Iowa had no chance against Missouri because they had two players total suspended for their bowl game.
 

Trainer

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Yeah CPR has yet to really make a decision that I have said what was he thinking, so I will trust in him on this one too.
 

CYVADER

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I have a feeling that, just maybe, CPR and the rest of his staff (as well as the USF coaching staff) know the kid a little better and no just a bit more about this situation than you. I trust our coaches (and South Florida's coaches) opinions on this kid much more than somebody who just learned his name for the first time this morning.

If CPR wants him, then I want him too.


boom! we have a winner
 

gocubs2118

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I have a feeling that, just maybe, CPR and the rest of his staff (as well as the USF coaching staff) know the kid a little better and no just a bit more about this situation than you. I trust our coaches (and South Florida's coaches) opinions on this kid much more than somebody who just learned his name for the first time this morning.

If CPR wants him, then I want him too.

Winner winner gourmet chicken dinner.
 

Clonedogg

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do we really have these kids committing or is it still just speculation? and also what is this about it counting vs. last yrs commits? can a school really do that? and do both these kid qualify?

thx