She seems to be struggling physically. I feel bad for her because she doesn’t seem to be able to play at the same level she has in the past and you know it isn’t an effort issue.
WBB: **** Iowa State vs. OSU- 4:00 PM ESPN2/ESPN+ GAME THREAD ****
- Thread starter MuskMisk
- Start date
And that’s what good programs have figured out. Use the transfer portal to get older. Unless freshmen are elite, they shouldn’t see meaningful time in today’s landscape. Go find someone who is ready to contribute immediately and get them here.
Okie state figured it out, but we can’t.
Other than the finances of NIL, the end result won’t be much different. No tourney in sight for either team.
One good thing about basketball is you don't have to win all the games, just the last one. We are a team still figuring things out - getting our pieces to work together most effectively including not fouling and .making free throws. The fantasy of a final four is over for this year, but sweet 16 is attainable.
thanks for posting this. I really needed some positivity this morning. I was majorly depressed after yesterday's game.
Sweet Sixteen is usually "attainable" to any good team having a hot streak, you don't "have" to be hosting but hosting as one of the home sixteen is the target of any ranked team. We'd have to go on quite a run to achieve that this year and I think hosting is very unlikely. Still, almost got there last year shooting our way past Maryland (actually a good match-up) and having a career game from Ryan to almost get past Stanford.
With Hare added we sort of had the same team as last year but with a bite more experience from Crooks/Brown/Jackson/Joens who all got a ton of playing time last year. Without Hare we need someone to step up into that void to be able to equal last year.
LOT of work to be done but 2/3 of the season is still there in front of us. We've seen enough to be concerned but not enough to write the team off. I am certainly lowering title expectations from co-favorite to longshot however nobody is looking unbeatable in the Big 12. There are no Mulkey Bears looking to tear up the league. Any number of the contenders (including us) our an injury away from it all coming undone.
Yeah…I concur with what you’re saying. I’m now in the mid pack finish state of mind. 10-8 type of thing.
That's why TJ has been successful imo. Mix in some talented young players with experienced players via transfer portal.
I respectfully beg to differ re: Addy. I would label her skilled but not athletic. She's not that fast up and down the court and not a stopper on D. An athletic girl that's 6'2" should also be able to take it to the hoop better than she's shown.
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Yeah. And then multiple people immediately talk about how they think it's a valid excuse.
Don't disagree with this but she is the closest thing we have to anything resembling athletic with some height. Says a lot about team construction and recruiting.
I like your "qualification" clause! Many fans are citing the loss of Kelsey Hare as a distinct negative in this season's downward progression, but I don't see it. She only played in ten games, primarily against lesser competition - the only top team she faced was South Carolina. Her statistics were therefore accrued playing against the likes of Chicago State and USC - Upstate (she killed it shooting free throws), yet she only averaged 8.3 PPG, shooting 26-77 (.338) overall and 17-60 (.283) from 3PT. How can anybody suggest losing those statistics is a detriment to the team?
Some will say she had a pre-existing hip injury, which limited her effectiveness. I would ask why she was handed a starting role or why we recruited her at all (from the portal) if she had an injury which kept her from practicing regularly, limited her game minutes and ultimately required surgery.
The last part is purely my conjecture, but I believe our young "returners" (AJ, Joens) aren't playing as well this year because they didn't get a fair chance to compete for the starting slot "given" to Hare in camp, plus she got the "license to shoot" while they're still being told to "pass first". I said it before - Hare had a "decent" three game stretch where she averaged 11 shots / game. Kelsey Joens has never taken 11 shots in a game during her 1 1/3 seasons at ISU. Does anybody besides me believe Kelsey Joens would average > 8.3 points and 2.6 rebounds if she took ten shots / game? I'd like CBF to remove the binders so we can find out. JMHO.
Here's hoping the New Year allows the young women to get untracked and throw down on KU - go State!
Did Kenzie Hare murder your dog?
Though I agree Joens should be playing more, especially after the OSU game.
I expect a healthy Hare to have ended up shooting better as the season went on, she did shot 43% from three last year. She was a starter, not a bench player like Hansford. I don't totally disagree on Joens although you know you are pretty heavily biased in that regard.
I will throw in could be what I've called the Golden Girls coming into play. Fennelly has seemingly had favorites in many years that appear to get special treatment. So much so that I just gave them that nickname for myself. These gals usually start right away, many times unexpectedly, and get to play through mistakes. Tanke sort of looks like one right. I'd throw Fritz and Feuerbach into that Golden Girl mix also. Others, unfavored, get pulled after any mistake, be a missed block out, a missed play, a TO etc. We have had a long list of gals who were good players but appear to be perpetually in the doghouse. Not sure if we are seeing that again or if it's just a weird uncertainty of who should be playing. I'd say yes with Tanke but maybe not with the other, more of a WTF? for us fans watching.
I will say that the portal class was way overhyped for what we have seen to date. I get that, it did look pretty good especially in lieu of a eye catching HS class. Hare is out. Harris is interesting but is starting to look like a scorer only type of player, not that we can't use that but seems like she'd be great at a mid-major where she could be the featured player and shoot 20 times a game.
Some good points. Playing Tanke puzzles me. Seems like she is being thrown into the fire to harden the steel? So far it isn’t working. Joens has def showed up when she's had the opportunity lately. I also agree we don’t know what a healthy Hare would look like. IMO she brought some very positive things to the court. That early season 12 deep talk has turned into 4 deep in a hurry. Just have to hope Harris continues to score and starts to build the rest of her game.I expect a healthy Hare to have ended up shooting better as the season went on, she did shot 43% from three last year. She was a starter, not a bench player like Hansford. I don't totally disagree on Joens although you know you are pretty heavily biased in that regard.
I will throw in could be what I've called the Golden Girls coming into play. Fennelly has seemingly had favorites in many years that appear to get special treatment. So much so that I just gave them that nickname for myself. These gals usually start right away, many times unexpectedly, and get to play through mistakes. Tanke sort of looks like one right. I'd throw Fritz and Feuerbach into that Golden Girl mix also. Others, unfavored, get pulled after any mistake, be a missed block out, a missed play, a TO etc. We have had a long list of gals who were good players but appear to be perpetually in the doghouse. Not sure if we are seeing that again or if it's just a weird uncertainty of who should be playing. I'd say yes with Tanke but maybe not with the other, more of a WTF? for us fans watching.
I will say that the portal class was way overhyped for what we have seen to date. I get that, it did look pretty good especially in lieu of an eye catching HS class. Hare is out. Harris is interesting but is starting to look like a scorer only type of player, not that we can't use that but seems like she'd be great at a mid-major where she could be the featured player and shoot 20 times a game.
I agree with what you posted. We started the year with a clear 3 starters penciled in, some good returners and a group of players who had very good stats from their former teams. I felt early on the coaches were looking to see who would come to the top as the other two starters and then how would the sub rotation would work. Most teams have a core 5 and then 3-4 key subs but on paper I felt if players played like they had last year we would be even deeper. Your freshman are always a question mark as this level is much more intense then high school. I think that Em is fighting to get back in shape from what happened last year to her physically. Audi is having to get accustomed to much more physical play than last season. Addy like many have noted has struggled with consistency from game to game. AJ has not disappointed me as she has shown to be a tough defender which can hurt her shooting( which looks very good) as that tends to wear a player down. I am one who believes Kelsey needs more time on the floor her hustle is much needed and she can shoot very well but it also brings a defender from the other team many times in her face. That covers the returners last year. Of the new players Alisa knows our system being a red shirt but to date IMO has not had enough minutes to know her full value and we also have Lilt T who we need to see how they can play in the post. Lily H had good numbers from the 3 line last year and has looked good on defense with her length hope she finds the touch again. Sydney as you noted has been able to find her touch shooting but has to step up on D. That leaves the two freshman I am most impressed with Reagan for her ball handling at the point as she gets the ball up the court quickly. Aili was known as a very good shooter in high school and I believe it will be a strong point but again this not HS and her "D" must get better to get minutes. One good thing I see from our non con schedule is we had some easy games and played 5 games against tougher teams (of the 4 we lost were in it on two ) and played 4 games in 11 days which hopefully makes tougher later in the season. Enough from an old long time supporter just come back rested from the break and give the upcoming teams your best and see where it gets us. Go Cyclones!!!I expect a healthy Hare to have ended up shooting better as the season went on, she did shot 43% from three last year. She was a starter, not a bench player like Hansford. I don't totally disagree on Joens although you know you are pretty heavily biased in that regard.
I will throw in could be what I've called the Golden Girls coming into play. Fennelly has seemingly had favorites in many years that appear to get special treatment. So much so that I just gave them that nickname for myself. These gals usually start right away, many times unexpectedly, and get to play through mistakes. Tanke sort of looks like one right. I'd throw Fritz and Feuerbach into that Golden Girl mix also. Others, unfavored, get pulled after any mistake, be a missed block out, a missed play, a TO etc. We have had a long list of gals who were good players but appear to be perpetually in the doghouse. Not sure if we are seeing that again or if it's just a weird uncertainty of who should be playing. I'd say yes with Tanke but maybe not with the other, more of a WTF? for us fans watching.
I will say that the portal class was way overhyped for what we have seen to date. I get that, it did look pretty good especially in lieu of a eye catching HS class. Hare is out. Harris is interesting but is starting to look like a scorer only type of player, not that we can't use that but seems like she'd be great at a mid-major where she could be the featured player and shoot 20 times a game.
Negative. I generally like CF for the no-holds barred discussion taking place almost everywhere except the WBB board, which is largely dominated by fervent CBF supporters who see everything through rose-colored glasses.
I was the 6'1 - 145 pound point forward on a bad small town HS basketball team, averaging 14 points and 10 rebounds my senior season. I saw the game well, was fundamentally sound and played hard every second I was on the court. I succeeded, at least a little, by playing smarter. I'm suggesting I see the game better than I played the game, though there is the possibility I could be wrong!!!
There are several people on this board who are very knowledgeable on the topic of women's basketball, a couple of which would include (but not necessarily be limited to) The Shadow and MRed - unfortunately they don't post very often. MRed recently wrote (paraphrasing), "I expected Kelsey Hare to be a Hannah Belanger upgrade, and I believe she would have been if not injured."
I'm trying to understand what others saw in KH's limited audition to believe this, as the statistics really don't bear it out. Other than USC, she played against lower-level competition, yet her statistics were "not good". If she was injured, why was she playing / starting? The "board" is bemoaning the fact the "supporting cast" hasn't stepped up to make three's at a higher percentage, yet Hare seems to get a pass for shooting .283 / .338. Nobody will address that with a ten foot pole - why?
In closing, I am openly biased and I'm not quiet about it - people are slowly coming around to my side of that argument, namely KJ PT! Off for Friday night Mexican / Margarita night - be well all and Go State!!!
Hare's injury was something she was dealing with all year to my understanding, it was not something that came on recently. Her performance was likely affected by that.
