Nigel's horrible take on 90's NBA

[twincyties]

Corrected:
Pippen - elite all time defender, LBJ has played with many better offensive stars
Rodman - elite all time defender/rebounder, gave you almost nothing on offense
Harper - defensive role player, you wouldn’t remember him had he played on other teams
Kukoc - role player, bench scoring, nobody would remember had he played on other teams

This is a thoughtful response and - for what it’s worth - I think your assessments are spot on.

But think you know where I’m going with my snarky comment above. You can’t say MJ wasn’t on a super team AND say that his supporting cast would crush players today. It seems contradictory to me.

Frankly - and others can certainly disagree - I think Jordan’s supporting cast is dramatically underrated.

 

[deadeyededric]

LBJ is as obviously the better past his prime player, not surprising how he is built. MJ was obviously better in his prime in the playoffs, no 16ppg playoff series losses.

Either way, aren't we talking about the league in general? Players are way more skilled now. Our NBA guys from that era were getting beat by more skilled Europeans in international play by the late 90s/early 2000s. We didnt start winning again until we got more skilled. That should tell people something.

 

[IASTATE07]

He took a team to the finals almost instantly by himself a few times. I don't remember Jordan getting past the 2nd round until he got help. LeBron also wasn't washed up playing for the Wizards in his late 30s. He still plays at an elite level at 40. Just some food for thought.

Jordan should have done the whole load management thing instead of playing 82 games his last season. Not too bad averaging 20 ppg washed up.

 

[goody2012]

There are a lot of people that think that. And others that disagree. I think it’s interesting debate but people get really worked up about.

I tend to take the approach of appreciating each generation for what it was. Because I just really enjoy basketball.

What I think is really crazy is when people start talking in absolutes. Like this guy would dominate today or that guy could never have played in the 90s. It’s impossible to compare. And no one will ever know for certain. But maybe that debate is fun for some people.

In every other sport the athletes get more athletic and more skilled (including measured sports like track & field) but somehow in basketball they got worse?

 

[deadeyededric]

Jordan should have done the whole load management thing instead of playing 82 games his last season. Not too bad averaging 20 ppg washed up.

What was his fg%. The only team that was going to let him take that many shots at that point in his career was a team like Wasnington.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

He took a team to the finals almost instantly by himself a few times. I don't remember Jordan getting past the 2nd round until he got help. LeBron also wasn't washed up playing for the Wizards in his late 30s. He still plays at an elite level at 40. Just some food for thought.

LeBron is good, I'm not arguing that. Can't ignore what I presented before though.

Plus Jordan retired then came back and won 3.

 

[Halincandenza]

He could gaurd any post player. Did you ever see him picking up guys at half court? I don't recall him ever guarding 6-10 guys 30ft from the rim.

Well in his prime as a defender he was guarding perimeter players. With the Bulls he wasn’t asked to do that and it was later in his career so not sure if he could at that point. But he was a ridiculous athlete that was 6’7 with a 7’3 wingspan.

 

[IASTATE07]

What was his fg%. The only team that was going to let him take that many shots at that point in his career was a team like Wasnington.

Did you read what I said? He should have load managed. I'm guessing his numbers would have improved if he's sitting out every 3 or 4 games.

 

[Halincandenza]

It's impossible almost to play D in the NBA now. The skill and shooting level 1-5 is off the charts. Defenses are so extended it’s almost impossible to help defend too. More entertaining in the 90's? I guess it depends on your preference but the skill is 2x better than the 90s.

Outside shooting skill not just skill overall.

 

[HFCS]

Either way, aren't we talking about the league in general? Players are way more skilled than now. Our NBA guys from that era were getting beat by more skilled Europeans in international play by the late 90s/early 2000s. We didnt start winning again until we got more skilled. That should tell people something.

I’m not convinced American players are really any better or worse outside of 3 pt shooting where they are far better.

I think the overall talent is clearly better because of international players (getting close to 1/3 of league). 2 of the three best players in the nba have been foreign for three or four years in a row. If you extend to Luka it’s like 3 of the best 5 players.

LBJ ran into a foreign player in the finals who outplayed him about a decade ago but even back then it had maybe half the international talent there is now.

LBJ has been around so long if people bash MJ/90s they’re bashing his early career because the league wasn’t that different early 00s vs 90s.

The dividing line imho is Steph’s shooting revolution and the almost simultaneous foreign talent infusion, LeBron’s career is split on both sides of it.

 

[Sigmapolis]

going back to Cleveland and getting them a title there is one of the coolest and most honorable things a player has ever done, not to mention the team he beat and how he beat them.

What a bizarre but memorable series in hindsight.

Play that series 100 times and the Dubs win it 99 times.

Never thought I'd see a team win a championship because KEVIN LOVE d'ed up Curry.

 

[deadeyededric]

I’m not convinced American players are really any better or worse outside of 3 pt shooting where they are far better.

I think the overall talent is clearly better because of international players (getting close to 1/3 of league). 2 of the three best players in the nba have been foreign for three or four years in a row. If you extend to Luka it’s like 3 of the best 5 players.

LBJ ran into a foreign player in the finals who outplayed him about a decade ago but even back then it had maybe half the international talent there is now.

LBJ has been around so long if people bash MJ/90s they’re bashing his early career because the league wasn’t that different early 00s vs 90s.

The dividing line imho is Steph’s shooting revolution and the almost simultaneous foreign talent infusion, LeBron’s career is split on both sides of it.

I would agree. The influx of European talent and talent of guys over 6-7 is what makes this NBA easily the most talented. If people enjoyed the 90s NBA better that's totally fine with me, it's people saying that today's players couldn't have made it back then is what I find laughable. Someone like Kevin Durant would have been unstoppable in the 90s.

 

[twincyties]

It's not like it is today though, where LeBron gets to hand pick his superstars wherever he wants to be.

Agree.

 

[ISUCyclones2015]

Jordan should have done the whole load management thing instead of playing 82 games his last season. Not too bad averaging 20 ppg washed up.

Lebron averaged 35min a game and 29 PPG last year and pretty similar this year so far. Jordan actually averaged 20PPG in his last season.

Lebron is killing people half his age

 

[deadeyededric]

Outside shooting skill not just skill overall.

Huh? Guys 6-10 have the ball handling and passing skills of guards nowadays. Did you ever see Karl Malone or David Robinson with the ball at the top of the key crossing people over?

 

[ghyland7]

LeBron is good, I'm not arguing that. Can't ignore what I presented before though.

Plus Jordan retired then came back and won 3.

To be fair, Jordan’s retirement probably had something to do with a gambling scandal and/or league offices more so than him getting older or hurt, the more “typical” retirements for players…

 

[deadeyededric]

To be fair, Jordan’s retirement probably had something to do with a gambling scandal and/or league offices more so than him getting older or hurt, the more “typical” retirements for players…

I doubt that for the simple fact that if he had anything left in the tank he wouldn't have went to Washington. He went to one of the few places that were going to give him enough shots. Why didn't he end up with a playoff team? 20ppg shooting 43%

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

To be fair, Jordan’s retirement probably had something to do with a gambling scandal and/or league offices more so than him getting older or hurt, the more “typical” retirements for players…

Still happened. LeBron and Jordan can both be good.

 

[IASTATE07]

Lebron averaged 35min a game and 29 PPG last year and pretty similar this year so far. Jordan actually averaged 20PPG in his last season.

Lebron is killing people half his age

Playing in only 2/3 of the games. Jordan played more minutes per game in all 82 games.

 

[deadeyededric]

Playing in only 2/3 of the games. Jordan played more minutes per game in all 82 games.

Jordan only played in 60 games his 1st year in Washington. He also wasn't over 40 like LeBron is now. He was a shell of his former self at even 38. I always thought his Wizards days were kind of sad.