***OFFICIAL BIG 12 EXPANSION THREAD 2.0***

[roundball]

Because endowments matter so much to athletics. Its not like anyone is sharing their endowments within conference.

Also, UCF is ranked 173 by USnews rankings for national universities. Okie State 145. USF 161 WVU 168, Texas Tech 156. A good number of UCF's programs are ranked in the top 100. We're not talking a huge dropoff from universities already in the big 12. Besides, why do we pretend this is about anything but athletics anyways. We're not the big 10.

And no, UCF doesnt have a ton of endowment or fanbase built compared to all in the big 10 but they didnt start building their alumni base until the last couple decades (the school itself being less than 50 years old). It will happen with time, and with the fact that they *have* had at least some athletics history and a strong showing in attendance for their level of competition (bringing 35-45k routinely right now, with a 45k capacity stadium) it shows they could transition well to a higher level. When ashford is doing that then yeah, lets talk about them.

So if UCF has the potential to be a **** hot sports school (we disagree there), why not wait for it to happen on its own before adding them to the conference? Since when do P5 conferences invest in "project schools" that could turn out to be huge programs? Never, and it's because they'd be stupid to do so. The only reason conferences have added members is out of necessity for survival (Big 12), or because the new members add value for their TV contracts (everyone else). If UCF is a potential juggernaut, let them become that before extending an invite...there's no reason whatsoever to split revenue with a school that's not pulling their weight on the off chance that someday they'll be able to contribute their fair share.

 

[roundball]

If we're going to add schools, do BYU and CSU. Any more, CSU has every bit of market penetration in Denver that CU does, and is a good school academically. They're building a new football stadium that will be Big 12 worthy.

This doesn't matter, because the Big 12 doesn't have a TV network that they need to jam down the throats of cable customers in major cities like the Big Ten does. It's astounding how few people understand this after five years of realignment.

 

[Al_4_State]

This doesn't matter, because the Big 12 doesn't have a TV network that they need to jam down the throats of cable customers in major cities like the Big Ten does. It's astounding how few people understand this after five years of realignment.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying there are a lot of people in Denver who will watch CSU playing in the Big 12, which will help league ratings.

 

[Al_4_State]

Really a dumb post. As has been specifically covered about 500 times in the first 200+ pages of this post, this has nothing to do with "willing and capable". Northwestern is already IN one of the going-forward and stable conferences. They aren't getting kicked out. We are potentially NOT in one of the stable, going-forward conferences. So we would have to be INVITED to one of the Power 4. With our lack of television market, being one of two major programs in a small state and the lack of any success in football, we would struggle to get that invite. It sure as **** isn't coming from the B10.

You know what doesn't make sense?

An AAU public school with 35,000 students, a 60,000 seat football stadium and 14,000 seat basketball arena not being a part of major college athletics. This rigorous 4 x 16 model isn't happening.

 

[WalkingCY]

Arkansas and LSU should be the main focus for the Big 12 if expansion needed to happen. Lsu's constant crying that the sec offices are 20 minutes away from Alabama's campus and schedule favoritism are starting points to get them with us. Then, Arkansas old ties with the swac schools is icing on the cake. Two regionally perfect schools to add, and the Texas/Ou elitists would feel comfortable for years to come with that scenario. And let's be honest, **** happens and fan bases get upset. Here's to LSU making that happen because that would be the only way to get negotiations started.

Still, 10 is the perfect model right now. The money is right, the competition is right, etc... No need to change.

 

[Gorm]

A lot still depends on the future court rulings and if the NCAA survives.

Private schools like your Wake Forests, Northwesterns, etc where Football isn't a major player may choose to move to lower tiers for sports. This isn't unprecedented, the University of Chicago took this action when they left the Big 10. Although, that was a different place and time for college sports.

FWIW Northwestern is the only P5 school (I believe) to still have a tarp covering some of their seats?

The Big10 would love to dump Northwestern, they probably would love the same thing to happen with Purdue. They maintain their coverage while dumping the fat.

 

[Cydwinder]

That's what 16 would be.

With 16 you can at least play one cross division team each year with 8 games though.

 

[laminak]

This has been a fun summer so far--we got both countless Hoiberg threads and now getting expansion threads back. In the last five years, it was usually one or the other dominating the summer chat here.

 

[Haverhill]

Mentioned this in another thread, but westward expansion in terms of media markets could be a huge source of growth for the Big 12. The Big 12 could go after CSU and BYU, and use them as leverage to get the Arizona schools. Then add SDSU and UNLV to top off the league at 16.

CSU - Denver
BYU - Salt Lake City (and a National Name)
SDSU - Southern California
Ariz - Phoenix
ASU - Phoenix
UNLV - Las Vegas

If that happened though, we'd probably lose West Virginia. If these other schools were in the league, we could potentially lure Nebraska or Colorado back, or add a school like New Mexico just to fill a geographic void.

The one downfall with this idea would be that it would be growth based upon potential, rather than known quantities. There could be a lot of griping in early years, and a lot of griping 10 years down the road if one of the "potential power" schools don't pan out.

 

[isu81]

You know what doesn't make sense?

An AAU public school with 35,000 students, a 60,000 seat football stadium and 14,000 seat basketball arena not being a part of major college athletics. This rigorous 4 x 16 model isn't happening.

"Oh, Elaine. The toll road of denial is a long and dangerous one. The price, your soul." - J Peterman

 

[isu81]

Mentioned this in another thread, but westward expansion in terms of media markets could be a huge source of growth for the Big 12. The Big 12 could go after CSU and BYU, and use them as leverage to get the Arizona schools. Then add SDSU and UNLV to top off the league at 16.

CSU - Denver
BYU - Salt Lake City (and a National Name)
SDSU - Southern California
Ariz - Phoenix
ASU - Phoenix
UNLV - Las Vegas

If that happened though, we'd probably lose West Virginia. If these other schools were in the league, we could potentially lure Nebraska or Colorado back, or add a school like New Mexico just to fill a geographic void.

The one downfall with this idea would be that it would be growth based upon potential, rather than known quantities. There could be a lot of griping in early years, and a lot of griping 10 years down the road if one of the "potential power" schools don't pan out.

So Arizona and Arizona State are going to leave the security and financial goldmine of the Pac12 because they got leveraged by Colorado State and BYU? And Colorado would leave the Pac12 to get back? And Nebraska leaves possibly the best situation to rejoin what would essentially be the old Mountain West? I'll give you the westward expansion thing, but changes this direction mean the WAC is back and we're charter members. West Virginia would be long gone to either the ACC or SEC.

 

[cykadelic2]

This doesn't matter, because the Big 12 doesn't have a TV network that they need to jam down the throats of cable customers in major cities like the Big Ten does. It's astounding how few people understand this after five years of realignment.

And those conferences with their own networks are facing a very uncertain future as CATV/SAT cord cutting continues to increase at a significant rate and, in response, CATV/SAT providers will bundle new packages without sports networks.

 

[DFWClone]

You know what doesn't make sense?

An AAU public school with 35,000 students, a 60,000 seat football stadium and 14,000 seat basketball arena not being a part of major college athletics. This rigorous 4 x 16 model isn't happening.

The 4 x 16 model might not happen but the big 12 won't be around much longer.

 

[cykadelic2]

The 4 x 16 model might not happen but the big 12 won't be around much longer.

The 16-team model is based solely to max out the acquisition of premium cable subs for conference networks. With increased CATV/SAT cord cutting and unbundling of traditional CATV/SAT packages, the conference network model is jeopardized and the need for superconferences is reduced and eventually eliminated.

You had better believe that the likes of Ohio St are looking at the B12 Tier 3 model and thinking they could make a helluva lot more money with that model. And the Pac12 schools who are currently getting less than $1M/yr from their network are thinking the same thing.

 

[roundball]

You know what doesn't make sense?

An AAU public school with 35,000 students, a 60,000 seat football stadium and 14,000 seat basketball arena not being a part of major college athletics. This rigorous 4 x 16 model isn't happening.

We've barely been part of major college athletics for our entire existence, why would we start now?

 

[drednot57]

If the Big 12 dissolved and KU joined the Big 10, they would still need another team. We'd get that nod before KSU.

FWIW, I don't want that to happen. I like where we're at and think that as long as we can stay in a financially viable league with Texoma schools, we should. Our recruiting would plummet in the Big 10. As bad as it is now, it would be that much worse, I think.

Actually IMO, ISU's recruiting net would expand nationally if, somehow, they end up in the B1G. The FB team may lose a significant portion of Texas recruiting, but like under Johnny Majors and Earle Bruce, focus on recruiting the southeastern US particularly Georgia and Florida. The eastern US would probably be a big focus, and as long as Todd Sturdy is on staff, the West Coast would be recruited more heavily as well.

 

[DFWClone]

If the Big 12 dissolved and KU joined the Big 10, they would still need another team. We'd get that nod before KSU.

FWIW, I don't want that to happen. I like where we're at and think that as long as we can stay in a financially viable league with Texoma schools, we should. Our recruiting would plummet in the Big 10. As bad as it is now, it would be that much worse, I think.

No we wouldn't. KU is going no where without KSU. That's just how this sorta thing works. Just like OU would never leave Okstate. They might be rivals but they're still partners.

 

[Nycclone]

Would love to add uconn and temple. Mostly cuz both are easy road trips for me. Neither will ever happen. In theory, it could give us market penetration into Phillie nyc and Boston. But I'm not an idiot and know nobody cares about either football team. though it'd be hard to argue the bump both could give for basketball quality.

 

[Al_4_State]

No we wouldn't. KU is going no where without KSU. That's just how this sorta thing works. Just like OU would never leave Okstate. They might be rivals but they're still partners.

Just like Texas and A&M.

If you think KSU has a chance in hell of being in the Big 10, you're out of your mind.

 

[scyclonekid]

Just like Texas and A&M.

If you think KSU has a chance in hell of being in the Big 10, you're out of your mind.

do we have a chance at landing in the big ten in your opinion?