and we were down too, but by the time Orr got it going he had to contend with great teams and coaches. Billy Tubbs, Lon Krueger, Danny Nee, Larry Brown, Norm Stewart, Eddie Sutton
TJ best coach we have ever had?
- Thread starter CycloneVet
- Start date
Tim Floyd was the first to take the Cyclones to at least 3 straight tournaments, and the team advanced in each one (once to Sweet 16). Also, winning the last Big 8 Conference tournament was huge at the time. Floyd was a great coach. He was not afraid to try different things to get an edge such as box-in-one and other junk defenses, or intentionally putting poor free throw shooters in 1-and-1 to try to change game flow. His teams were really fun to watch. Hoiberg and later Willoughby moved a whole lot without the ball in order to get open. Either one could take over a game at any time. Unlike Larry, Fred & TJ, Floyd never had a truly embarrassing loss in the NCAA tournament.
He had some weird losses at home though and got absolutely torched by KU in the '97 Big 12 tourney. 72-48.
Just looked it up and that '97 team lost 4/7 including that Big 12 tourney loss before going to the Sweet 16.
Things aren't always what they seem.
You are proving my point. Even Danny Née has done more at Nebraska than Orr has done at ISU, at least in regular season. Orr was a great personality but his record at ISU was only 2 games over 500
My point is after he turned it, we were decent. You are throwing in the building up years into Orr's record. Nee didn't have to take over for a terrible program like Orr did. Nebraska had 5 winning seasons in a row, 4 top half of the conference finishes including second place before Nee took over. My goodness, not a fair comparison at all. Plus, Orr had some bad luck with key players missing the season and getting hurt during the season. Loren Meyer getting hit by a train, Gary Tompkins getting hurt, and the Sam Mack incident. The Sam Mack incident affected more than just him, there was Orr documentary on how they that affected the program as a whole at the time.
Even though I have my opinion (yes) it's way too early to ask this question...... however the fact that he took a program that went 2-22 to the sweet 16 is amazing. It's a total insult that he didn't get Coach of the Year on any level.
But it's a story for the ages, too do what he did with his group of misfit toys (I mean this in the kindest and coolest way). Not a single superstar (Brockington may have emerged as one, but he wasn't recruited as one), and then to just keep on accomplishing the next years, wading his way through the lawless NIL.
I guess you can keep Coach of the Year, I will wait for the 30 for 30!
But it's a story for the ages, too do what he did with his group of misfit toys (I mean this in the kindest and coolest way). Not a single superstar (Brockington may have emerged as one, but he wasn't recruited as one), and then to just keep on accomplishing the next years, wading his way through the lawless NIL.
I guess you can keep Coach of the Year, I will wait for the 30 for 30!
Maybe we should wait at least a few more years before debating this. Yes, this is a very successful start to his head coaching tenure, but it's far too early to tell what the long-term impact will be.
I will indeed say that if TJ can sustain this level of play and build off of his early success, then yes, he's in for a very successful career at least (and yes, likely, if what he's accomplished year-to-year so far is the norm, he's at least in the conversation for greatest of all time). But it needs to be noted that, while future success may feel "inevitable" after a hot start, it's not (as has been proven by many college athletic programs all over the US).
I believe in TJ and I hope he continues to build off of what he has done so far. But I feel that it's not fair to him or the coaches that have come before him to start deciding his legacy before it's had a chance to play out. We need to give him a few more years to build his legacy and only then can we begin to have this debate without guessing how his tenure will impact the future of the program!
I will indeed say that if TJ can sustain this level of play and build off of his early success, then yes, he's in for a very successful career at least (and yes, likely, if what he's accomplished year-to-year so far is the norm, he's at least in the conversation for greatest of all time). But it needs to be noted that, while future success may feel "inevitable" after a hot start, it's not (as has been proven by many college athletic programs all over the US).
I believe in TJ and I hope he continues to build off of what he has done so far. But I feel that it's not fair to him or the coaches that have come before him to start deciding his legacy before it's had a chance to play out. We need to give him a few more years to build his legacy and only then can we begin to have this debate without guessing how his tenure will impact the future of the program!
Last edited:
If you didn't want the debate to continue bumping this thread wasn't the best idea.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
LOL Fair! Didn't think of it that way.
But yes, my point is maybe this debate should be more along the lines of "what does he have to do/maintain to *become* the best coach ever in school history once his tenure at ISU comes to an end," vs "where does he rank on a full career scale after his first three years vs coaches who we're measuring on full career scales?"
That's a lot of what ifs for a 14 year career. Orr was awesome, and is a huge part of why ISU basketball is what it is. But the SOS for ISU basketball has remained within a relatively stable range from Orr to Otz. So I don't think any big the Big 8/12 was drastically different arguments hold up. Ultimately Orr never had a stretch of even 3 years where he was above .500 in conference play. As a comparison, the three years prior to Orr, ISU was 20-22 in the league.
Orr developed ISU basketball into something the coaches following him could use to have further success. He never had great success, but that's the way coaching often goes. The first thing they needed was a coach like Orr that could inject excitement, put some good teams together, have success, and build a fanbase.
He rebuilt a terrible program, took ISU to a Sweet 16, and invented Hilton Magic. His stats aren't that impressive given what's happened in his wake, but none of that happens without him.
One way to do it would be by NCAA tournament wins at Iowa State. By my count it's:
TJ Otzelberger - 4
Tim Floyd - 4
Fred Hoiberg - 4
Larry Eustachy - 3
Johnny Orr - 3
Steve Prohm - 3
Lou Menze - 1
Wayne Morgan - 1
Obviously not perfect, but is a pretty impressive stat for a guy in his third year. I think it puts into prospective just how fast TJ is climbing the list of historical ISU MBB coaches and just how much we should be enjoying this.
Like Dan McCarney with Football
LOL I just realized that this forum allows Italics (I use asterisks because a lot of social media accounts don't allow Italics)!
Noted.
That BAM year was going to be something special. Mack had to get stupid at a BK and Baugh had to prove he was not college material at semester.
The most insane putback I ever witnessed in Hilton was by Baugh that year,. It ooked like he got the ball wirh one hand about 2 feet above the rim at about 4 feet straight out and slammed it with nasty force and a lot of room to spare. I thought he might have knocked his teeth out if he wasn't careful.
The BAM offense was something to see. Vic was the only one we got to keep. V!!!!!!!! Oh to be crazy and marginally good. Those were the days.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
Well, three years is over half of a normal ISU career. We don't really have to see much more in that regard.
Yeah, and Johnny scheduled a killer non-con schedule that year (including at #10 Michigan, at #11 Indiana, at Minnesota and at Houston) expecting to be able to compete with the best in the country. They took some pretty big hits when he didn't have the team that he expected he would have. They also had a tough conference scheduled with 7 games against top 15 teams including 3 against #1 (MU, MU, KU) and two against #2 (KU, KU).
Valid point. I guess if he sustains/improves thru year 6 or so, he could be considered "best," but to become "legendary" maybe it requires a lengthier, successful stint.
