Underage Bar Entry - Ames vs Iowa City

[ICCYFAN]

Yep, that's the scenario that makes IC such a drinker's town. People will drive hours just because they know they can get in. I have friends that go to IC once or twice a month because of the atmosphere. To my knowledge their IC friends do not take turns coming here.

It depends on which side you are on. Let's call a spade a spade here, by and large this issue is about allowing 19 and 20 year olds to get away with drinking in a bar if they choose to do so. From a money standpoint, by allowing more people in, the bar owners make more money. From a law enforcement standpoint, there is no chance that Ames has the manpower to keep all of these people from drinking.

Frankly, I'm so far removed from this scene that I don't care either way. These kids will find a way to drink, whether it's in a bar or at a house party. You could rationalize it by saying that the police can keep a closer watch on Campustown since that location is static; the drinking will always be done there. If you force these people to house parties, they are significantly harder to police.

On the other hand, the law is 21. By keeping these people out of the bars, you keep them out of the places you KNOW that booze is available.

It's a crap shoot. I think it's funny that we have opposing policies in the two major college towns within the state.

In 1976, there were six "bars" in Iowa City and ten liquor licenses total. By the end of 2006, there were over 50 "bars" in Iowa City. While the population of the city and the university enrollment have each grown by approximately 25% over that span, the number of bars has increased by 450%!

On Friday & Saturday nights, 100% of Iowa City's on-duty police force is downtown in the bar district (and therefore delayed in a response to any calls in other parts of town). Even so, there's a scientific survey that indicates a 70% binge drinking rate amongst EIU freshman! For reference, a Harvard study from several years ago set the ISU binge drinking rate (all ages averaged) at under 40%.

How could it be any worse if those 19 & 20 y/o EIU students lost the privilege to enter the bars? If they move to house parties, the city has a pretty stiff nuissance ordinance to deal with them (tenants can be evicted after two calls at the same residence; landlord loses his rental permit if he fails to act). Also, the state is close to passing keg registration; if you're of age and purchased the keg that underagers are utilizing, you're going to get in big trouble!

I'm trying to make up my mind on this topic. For those in favor of changing the "Iowa City 19 Ordinance", the "success" of the Ames 21 Ordinance is often cited. I'm trying to understand if the Ames Ordinance is successful. Ames certainly has fewer underage drinking citations (PAULA). Are there more off-campus house parties with rampant underage drinking? Any significant violent crime (rapes, assaults) associated with these unregulated house parties?

Orneryactor - you bring up the interesting "town vs. gown" angle. Everybody recognizes that EIU is the hub of the IC wheel, but students are transitory. Why should tax-paying long-term residents with children be denied the use of downtown IC? You would have to agree that the promulgation of bars around the ped mall has basically driven all other businesses out. Is this a good thing? Please take this as a gentle chiding rather than a slap in the face, but try to think "big picture" rather than just your short-term gratification!

 

[cytech]

I am not sure if I care one way or another if it is changed. When I was 20 and under at ISU I did goto IC a few times to goto bars and drink, but most of the time I stayed in Ames and drank in the dorms or at house parties.
1 thing is for sure though the house parties in ames are much better then any I have been at in iowa city.
And if iowa city made the bars 21+ then there would just be more house parties in Iowa city. College kids are going to drink no matter where it is. So if they decide to change this in Iowa city I don't think it will have any effect on the number of kids drinking it will just have a effect on who profit's off it.

 

[CYdTracked]

Leave it at 21. I actually would prefer a good party over the bars when I was at ISU. It's cheaper to go to a party than the bars and usually less crowded too. Less smoky too.

One thing I have always hated are crowded bars. I don't want to be bumped all the time and I prefer to be able to find a table or booth to sit at than having to deal with people always running into you or getting in your way.

The bar age rule never deprived me and honestly most freshmen and sophomores aren't always mature enough to handle the bar crowd anyways. I found myself by graduation time trying to stay away from parties that would be mostly underclassmen because by that time most seniors are more concerned about getting ready to start their careers and not continuing to act like they are still in HS which believe it or not for some of you freshmen that read these boards, you do act like a bunch of HS dorks until you figure out that college is no longer HS.

 

[Cyclonesrule91]

Honestly, I think many people would drink *less* at a bar than a house party, if only because it's expensive to drink at bars.

That is pretty good point I never thought about before. It definitely costs a lot more to get a drunk on at a bar then at campus party.

I went to ISU right after the law changed from 19 to 21 and it sucked I thought at the time, but when we wanted to drink, we found a place to drink. We went to the ISU-EIU football game when we lost 3-7 after QB Brett Oberg through the interception on the game winning drive.:growl5cj: We hit the bars after the game, and I left there knowing I had more fun picking the party I wanted to attend with friends then when going to bars where everybody wanted to show up. I hate crowded places.

 

[247cy]

No wonder Hawk fans are a-holes....from the sounds of things, they're all drunk.

If you're going to a school because of it's "night life" and "socail atomosphere", then I'd say you're going to that school for the wrong reasons. Don't get me wrong, I put away quite a few pops in my day, but I never worried about my social life being the best it could be.

The law is 21, leave it at 21.

 

[Bobber]

I agree that kids do not always listen. However, a 21 year old age limit doesn't mean that kids won't have access to alcohol and that they will be any more attentive to adults demands. Look at what has happened at VEISHA when alcohol was illegal if you were under 21. I have visited places like France that do not have a drinking age and they don't have a lot of the alcohol related problems we face in this country.

The drinking age in Iowa was 18 when I was that age. Had it been 21, I can't imagine that I wouldn't have flouted the law.

I lived in Germany for a year and same deal. This is all about responsibility. If you give an 18 year old that responsibility, then you darn well need to make them responsible for their actions. Not to beat a dead horse, but I think binge drinking problems would be less with a lower drinking age.

It's interesting that since 1976 when the age was 18, that we have had a 450% increase in bars today with a 21 drinking age! That tells me it was less of a problem when the age was lower....

 

[ICCYFAN]

No wonder Hawk fans are a-holes....from the sounds of things, they're all drunk.

If you're going to a school because of it's "night life" and "socail atomosphere", then I'd say you're going to that school for the wrong reasons. Don't get me wrong, I put away quite a few pops in my day, but I never worried about my social life being the best it could be.

The law is 21, leave it at 21.

The same Provost's Survey that I cited in the initial post also asked about why the student chose EIU. Only bits and pieces of the survey results have been made public, and this part hasn't other than in small group presentations, but only 20% responded "for the academics".

EIU is in need of a "culture change" when it comes to responsible use of alcohol. My interest as of right now lies in the question, "will denying bar access to those not of legal age have any affect on the problem, or will it create worse problems elsewhere?" I'm asking this board because Ames is the alternative to IC...

 

[Skyh13]

In my opinion, there is so much underage drinking because the nation makes such a big deal out of it being illegal. People have this mystical draw to whatever is rebellious, against the rules, that thing that should be "out of reach". Americans today have an incredibly skewed perception of alcohol. You don't see this as much in other countries because they don't make as a big a deal about alcohol being that thing you "shouldn't do". Granted, we're kind of stuck with the way it is... As soon as you drop any sort of age related to alcohol (bars, whatever), there's gonna be a HUGE spike in stuff related to it. Because all of a sudden, all these high schoolers who just got into college and aren't mature enough to know that binge-ing is stupid, see "Hey, now it's legal! Now I HAVE to do it!"

Granted, I'm not saying this is everyone, but I guarantee you that crowd has it's fair share. And I do agree with some things people are saying about age (the whole adult thing), the fact that it'll happen anyway, and the fact that letting 19 and 20 year-olds into bars isn't legalizing drinking. However, changing the age will tend to encourage those people, as I'm sure plenty of them will see

Legal Bar age - 19+
Legal Drinking age - 19+

So, basically after all these things I've written... I figure we're damned if we do, and damned if we don't.
(At least, until the drinking age is lowered to 18 and after that we fast-forward about 10 years... long enough for society's view on alcohol to change)

 

[alaskaguy]

What I would like to see is to have tobacco banned from the bars so I can have a drink and not have to inhale others smoke. Its certainly a occupational health hazard for the employees that have to work in a smoke environment. OSHA doesn't tolerate people working in such a toxic environment but for some reason makes an exception for tobacco smoke.

 

[benjay]

smokeless bars are win

 

[Bobber]

They've opened a few smokeless bars here in town and they've been a big hit. That's where I go the few times I go out anymore...

 

[pulse]

The legal drinking age in the State of Iowa is 21. In Ames, the legal age to enter a "bar" is 21. In Iowa City, 19 & 20 year-olds are allowed in "bars" (defined as more than 50% of proceeds are derived from sale of beer or alcohol), but they're not allowed to drink. <winkwink>

A recent provost's survey indicated that 70% of EIU freshmen and sophomores had engaged in "binge drinking" within the two-week period prior to which they took the survey. It's no secret that there is a serious drinking problem amongst students of all ages at EIU. A local group is considering a ballot initiative to change city code whereby bar access after 10PM would be denied those not of legal age (21).

What are the thoughts of present and former ISU students on the requirement to be 21 to enter a bar in Ames? Were you denied an active social life at the ages of 19 & 20? Did it lead to more off-campus house parties where underage drinking was rampant? In short, what were the negatives to having a "21 Law" in Ames?

I can answer this, the law will never change as long as Ames has a police department. Their take is if you allow underage people in, they will drink. As unpopular as that is with students, we all know its completely true. I went to bars underage, but not on a regular basis. Well, I guess it depended on the bar :biggrin9gp:

Not being able to get into bars doesn't deny one of an active social life. Finding parties to go to was never an issue. If you know lots of people and have fun friends, deciding which party to go to first and which ones you were going to go to was the only problem there was.

 

[benjay]

Well the Ames laws make it easy:

1.) Rent house within walking distance of campus.
2.) Buy kegs.
3.) Leak the news in the dorms.
4.) Make money.

 

[A liberal]

A few observations:
Personally, I think the law in Ames for bar admittance should be 20 at first, and then lowered to 19 years of age later, which would allow time for more bars to open up to accomdate more patrons. I myself am a 19 yeare old freshman. Not getting into Ames bars doesn't deter me from drinking as I always know of at least one house party. Drinking in the dorms isn't that bad either, especially when you have friendly RA's. The fact of the matter is, 19 and 20 year olds will drink once in the bars. I go to Iowa City and Cedar Rapids about once a month and always go to the bars. I do this simply because that's where everybody is, and most places have actualy dance floors. You can't really dance at a house party, and especially when the place is a craphole. My conclusion on this issue is that the younger kids should be allowed in, as it would increase bar revenue, which in turn leads to more bars, and more tax revenue for the city of Ames. Don't forget about PAULA's, since those are 300 bucks a pop. If I were the city of Ames I would get rid of the 21 ordinance simply for monetary reasons, but as always, Ames thinks it could survive without ISU here.

 

[ICCYFAN]

Well the Ames laws make it easy:

1.) Rent house within walking distance of campus.
2.) Buy kegs.
3.) Leak the news in the dorms.
4.) Make money.

The state is very close to passing a keg registration law which will make the purchasor of said keg responsible for some pretty serious stuff. Of course that will require the police department to crack down on house parties.

You guys are helping me out immensely with your input. I'm gathering that unregulated house parties are presently the norm in Ames (as they were when I was at ISU) and further that the police department doesn't get involved in busting them. Yes or No?

Have the unregulated house parties resulted in any recent violent crime, serious injuries or death?

 

[benjay]

We used to host a lot of parties, and we had no fewer than 6 get broken up by the cops. We were issued a grand total of 0 citations.

Basically they just clear out the party and every now and then give out some MiP's.

 

[A liberal]

I've seen my share of drunken fights, but usually you never hear of anything real serious except for last year when that girl (who was drunk herself) got killed by a drunk driver from West Ames. The purchasers of the alcohol are currently getting the book thrown at them.

Other than that, nothing too bad goes down except for the keg running dry.

 

[cytech]

I had several keg parties in ames while I was there too. During 2 of them the cops came. Once cause we set off some fireworks in the middle school's football field, at that time we had about 15-20 gallons of jungle juice and not a keg. It was mine and a friends birthday party, I offered the cops a cup(while being completely tanked ) they left and no trouble and they did not break up the party.

Second one was during the latest veisha riots we had a keg there. Set a bomb fire in the backyard, someone called the police fire department came we put out the fire they left no citations at all. No broken up party.

Now I have been at several parties where they have been busted, and I know 1 person that got a bootlegging citation once. But if you keep your house party under control, and people out of the front yard you won't get busted.

 

[Cyclone62]

The state is very close to passing a keg registration law which will make the purchasor of said keg responsible for some pretty serious stuff. Of course that will require the police department to crack down on house parties.

You guys are helping me out immensely with your input. I'm gathering that unregulated house parties are presently the norm in Ames (as they were when I was at ISU) and further that the police department doesn't get involved in busting them. Yes or No?

Have the unregulated house parties resulted in any recent violent crime, serious injuries or death?

The only serious crime or death was from a drunk driver hitting a pedestrian last fall I think. Other than that, there hasn't been anything about something happening that only started because of a house party.

 

[cstrunk]

Legal drinking age in America should be 18.

You can fight and DIE for your country, but no no no, can't have a drink of alcohol, that would be terrible!

I really wish there would be a major political push for the 21 age to change, but I know it would be hard to do. Of course there would be a lot of people 18-20 who immediately go out and drink because it is legal, but give it a few years and it will be just like it was when the age was 21. It is my opinion that 18 is a much better age for the transition than 21 because it is the dividing age between high school and college, and between adolescence and adulthood. I have personally lost out on social activities because friends decided to go to the bars and I couldn't because I wasn't 21 (I'm 19). Is it a huge deal? No, I'll find a way to drink now anyways. Why is it fair to label 18-20 year olds as criminals if all they want to do is have a few drinks and have a good time? There are far more important things for our law enforcement and legal system to handle than worrying about a young adult who happened to get caught drinking because he wasn't 21.