***Official ISU vs CU Post Game Thread***

[CycloneErik]

So discussion or speculation around it is unjust?

The fatigue excuse is tired (pun intended). This team's issues were the same in in November against teams like UNI and Northwestern that we're seeing now.

It's a fragile team (aka, soft) and those are Greg's words (fragile) from months ago - not mine.

It is a fragile team. We've agreed on that 1000 times (or something like that).

The team's rebounding effort is consistently solid (well, for most of conference play). I'll never understand the 40 minute thing, unless it's tied to the mental fragility.

 

[cyclonepower3]

The big question is do we have the recruiting class coming in to fix these problems next year....can't say i see it

 

[Angie]

So discussion or speculation around it is unjust?

The fatigue excuse is tired (pun intended). This team's issues were the same in in November against teams like UNI and Northwestern that we're seeing now.

No, making sweeping generalizations and declaring them as "fact" are unjust when they're about a group of guys who are not making a dime. If they didn't want to give an effort, they could leave the team, go overseas, etc. Instead, they keep playing - so saying as a certainty that they're not playing with any heart is ridiculous. You've certainly never used the word "speculation" in your posts before.

And, no, we had Lucca and Boozer on the team in November. More guys in rotation = fewer individual minutes on the floor. I'd say that goes pretty directly to fatigue.

 

[CycloneErik]

I think this team is one take-charge guard away from really good things. They need that guy that can bring everybody together and say, "This is how it's going to be. Right now, follow me."
Especially with the fragile thing. They need that guy that they can always rely on.

 

[Clone_12]

No, making sweeping generalizations and declaring them as "fact" are unjust when they're about a group of guys who are not making a dime. If they didn't want to give an effort, they could leave the team, go overseas, etc. Instead, they keep playing - so saying as a certainty that they're not playing with any heart is ridiculous. You've certainly never used the word "speculation" in your posts before.

And, no, we had Lucca and Boozer on the team in November. More guys in rotation = fewer individual minutes on the floor. I'd say that goes pretty directly to fatigue.

He means that we still had the same problems in November WITH Lucca and Boozer on the team.

 

[Toasted40]

Do you think this team has given it's all this season ON the court during games Angie?

I thought that the effort was OK today. This team is always going to have flat spots because there is foundation of play to fall back on.

We haven't stopped dribble penetration since Greg has been here, so that is not going to change. We are still going to look to shoot 3's, we are still going to be soft. I guess I have accepted that as the way this/program team is going to be.

I actually thought Greg had a pretty good day. The only thing I didn't understand is how he didn't call timeout the second Diante got the ball over halfcourt. I could see that play was going nowhere, and we had a TO left. Call it, and set up a play from half court.

 

[joefrog]

Please list all of the players on the team who would have been able to take his and DG's places, if we took them both out like you suggest. You may overestimate our depth just a bit.

You have no clue how much effort they put in, nor do any of us.

Well, this is where I would have to disagree with you Angie. I can tell for sure. It appears NONE of them, outside of Boozer, have hit the weight room. None. If they have been, it sure doesn't show. Doing the weights and the plyo is where you develop your body. ISU is fielding a team of boys, going up against men. That is what Big12 bball is all about. Toughness. LE's teams had it, same with TF's and also WM's even. You have to be physical to win in the Big12, especially on the road.

I don't see much development out of the players on their own, and I think that shows that Greg doesn't push them much in that area either. Greg has become soft, and his teams take on that characteristic.

I missed the game, but it sounds like I didn't miss much. It was just a re-run of almost all other bball games this year.

 

[Wesley]

And, again, nobody here knows. These guys are playing tons and tons of minutes due to a lack of depth - what appears to you to be a lack of effort may be extreme fatigue. A guy who Crazygreg railed on has played through an illness that could potentially be life-threatening in body-to-body contact. I'd say that's effort.

Other teams keep up the 40 minute effort with only five or six players like K State and Syracuse. We continue to play weiney defense against the three shot. We must have all five players give effort for us to win. That just doers not happen in tandem. We just hate to fight through screens. And then we lose.

 

[CycloneErik]

I thought that the effort was OK today. This team is always going to have flat spots because there is foundation of play to fall back on.

We haven't stopped dribble penetration since Greg has been here, so that is not going to change. We are still going to look to shoot 3's, we are still going to be soft. I guess I have accepted that as the way this/program team is going to be.

I actually thought Greg had a pretty good day. The only thing I didn't understand is how he didn't call timeout the second Diante got the ball over halfcourt. I could see that play was going nowhere, and we had a TO left. Call it, and set up a play from half court.

I agree about the timeout. I didn't think I'd prefer that until I saw DG looking determined to take that final shot. That's not his baby yet.

 

[Clone_12]

It is a fragile team. We've agreed on that 1000 times (or something like that).

The team's rebounding effort is consistently solid (well, for most of conference play). I'll never understand the 40 minute thing, unless it's tied to the mental fragility.

It means you have to play with solid effort for 40 minutes on both end of the court...nearly every coach in the country says this, and Coach Mac has referred to it all year long....unless you mean you don't understand why we don't play hard for 40 minutes-then I apologize.

 

[Cloned4Life]

So discussion or speculation around it is unjust?

The fatigue excuse is tired (pun intended). This team's issues were the same in in November against teams like UNI and Northwestern that we're seeing now.

It's a fragile team (aka, soft) and those are Greg's words (fragile) from months ago - not mine. I think it's fair to infer a fragile team wouldn't give 100%. How many fragile individuals are giving their best. Often (but not always) fragile and good effort do not go hand in hand.

Agree.

It's a fragile team and it's clear they still don't "get it." They just do not get how hard you have to play on every single possession to be successful.

 

[CycloneErik]

It means you have to play with solid effort for 40 minutes on both end of the court...nearly every coach in the country says this, and Coach Mac has referred to it all year long.

You missed the point. I understand what it is, just not why the guys don't have it.

Watching teams around the country struggle with the same thing is the reason I don't jump up and down to call it a coaching thing.

 

[Wesley]

He means that we still had the same problems in November WITH Lucca and Boozer on the team.

Then it is a coach problem?

 

[Angie]

He means that we still had the same problems in November WITH Lucca and Boozer on the team.

His preceding sentence was about fatigue and how it's an invalid excuse, then said that we have the same issues we did in November. No, I'd say our situation is inarguably worse, combined with a very long season - I'd say that goes pretty directly to fatigue.

 

[ISUFan22]

I'll never understand the 40 minute thing

Neither has this program for the last few years.

No, making sweeping generalizations and declaring them as "fact" are unjust when they're about a group of guys who are not making a dime. If they didn't want to give an effort, they could leave the team, go overseas, etc. Instead, they keep playing - so saying as a certainty that they're not playing with any heart is ridiculous. You've certainly never used the word "speculation" in your posts before.

Sweeping generalizations? I haven't made any that are far fetched at all. This team continues to play good at times but looks completely lost at other times. Effort is a pretty good explanation for that.

And, no, we had Lucca and Boozer on the team in November. More guys in rotation = fewer individual minutes on the floor. I'd say that goes pretty directly to fatigue.

And what's the excuse for when these guys were on the floor and the results were the same back then? This isn't a one game thing for me or even a one season issue. This program has experienced the same exact problems and lost games in the same exact way for a few years now. No progression. No changes. And no solid improvements to speak of.

 

[Clone_12]

Then it is a coach problem?

It's the coaches job to get the most out of his players, so I would put the responsibility on McDermott for this. He recruited all of these guys.

 

[alarson]

And what's the excuse for when these guys were on the floor and the results were the same back then? This isn't a one game thing for me or even a one season issue. This program has experienced the same exact problems and lost games in the same exact way for a few years now. No progression. No changes. And no solid improvements to speak of.

exactly.

 

[CycloneErik]

It's the coaches job to get the most out of his players, so I would put the responsibility on McDermott for this. He recruited all of these guys.

Explain why it happens at so many programs. Is UCLA really suffering from a talent problem? UNC?

I understand that my next comment will refer to a recruiting problem, and this is a gap for us, but it comes down to that refuse-to-lose leader on the floor, too. Those guys are apparently getting harder and harder to find.

 

[The_Architect]

The foul on Gilstrap with 20 seconds left was a complete joke.

 

[CycloneErik]

The foul on Gilstrap with 20 seconds left was a complete joke.

Aye, that it was. There were plenty of those.