Niang's 4th Foul

jdoggivjc

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It didn't impact the game. I don't know the real number...but we gave up 60 points in the paint? Many were barely contested? That is why we lost.

You're right - the best player on the floor tonight for either team having to sit for 6+ minutes due to refs calling questionable fouls had absolutely no impact on the game whatsoever (and I'm not even talking about the moving screens as those are fouls - it just would have been nice if they would have called a few of those on Virginia since they were using moving screens all evening).
 

HitItHard58

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You mean like when they didn't call him for a foul when he underut Gill at the end of the first half? We were ridiculously lucky that didn't get called. The 4th foul call was bad, but let's not pretend like there wasnt a call that went our way too.

I didn't see it that way at all. Looked like Georges turned to box out as Gill was starting to go up. Just because Gill wound up taking a hard fall doesn't mean there was a foul. Georges was in position to rebound and was within the rules of the game from what I could tell. I remember this play well because it was one of many that Reggie had to point out that he thought Niang got away with something. Not saying we didn't benefit from any other calls but in that particular case, I thought they got it right.
 

HFCS

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Why does it have to be one or the other? There are plenty of reasons why ISU lost this game, but to act like the officiating, and Niang's fourth foul in particular, weren't among the more prominent reasons is flat-out denying reality.

You and several of my Iowa fan friends all told me "you got screwed" during that stretch...but we have some here who are in permanent coping mechanism mode.

1. UVA clearly looked like the better team and dominated the 1st half
2. Niang looked far and away the best player in the game and they had no answer for him
3. ISU was on a run when the atrocious call happened
4. We'll never know if they had the gas to cut into that 7 point deficit but we know they got help stopping Georges that they did not deserve

That's my take and I'm fine with it. All time Cyclone legend went out playing like a total stud in all 4 postseason games.
 

baagoe

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You guys do realize that there can be multiple reasons and factors for why a team won a game, right?
 

cyclones500

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I'm way late to this thread (and many others) and I need to catch up.

I, too, wonder if he had been able to stay in, how complexion of game would have changed. And that's not even a commentary on whether that foul was legit or not. Just wonder what might have been.

Then again, I have a feeling some other ticky-tack foul would've happened 2 minutes later anyway, and it would've been moot. (That is a commentary on foul legitimacy)

Also, I'm curious how many players are called for moving screen fouls more than once per game, on average.
 

HFCS

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You're right - the best player on the floor tonight for either team having to sit for 6+ minutes due to refs calling questionable fouls had absolutely no impact on the game whatsoever (and I'm not even talking about the moving screens as those are fouls - it just would have been nice if they would have called a few of those on Virginia since they were using moving screens all evening).

This particular call may be an all time high for the folks who rationalize and use coping mechanisms about officiating never affecting anything.

Georges has arguably been as good as any player in the NCAA tourney. The refs were the only humans who looked remotely capable of slowing him down in our 4 postseason games (and tonight was the only night the seemed to do it for stretches by keeping him on the bench for no basketball reason).
 

Walden4Prez

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You guys do realize that there can be multiple reasons and factors for why a team won a game, right?

Impossible. If Georges doesn't sit for a few mins we don't give up 60+ points in the paint and get a couple rebounds.
 

HFCS

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I'm way late to this thread (and many others) and I need to catch up.

I, too, wonder if he had been able to stay in, how complexion of game would have changed. And that's not even a commentary on whether that foul was legit or not. Just wonder what might have been.

Then again, I have a feeling some other ticky-tack foul would've happened 2 minutes later anyway, and it would've been moot. (That is a commentary on foul legitimacy)

Also, I'm curious how many players are called for moving screen fouls more than once per game, on average.

To me it's a question of if he had the gas, we were closing on them and they couldn't stop him. Does that tire him out and we lose late anyway? We'll never know, thanks zebras.
 

D UP Clones

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You mean like when they didn't call him for a foul when he underut Gill at the end of the first half? We were ridiculously lucky that didn't get called. The 4th foul call was bad, but let's not pretend like there wasnt a call that went our way too.


If you think he undercut him then you are clueless. Contact in the floor and Virginia guy tried to do an acting job after jumping.

The official didn't even fall for that.
 

Skidoosh

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If you think officiating won this game for UVA:

1. You didn't watch the game I watched
OR
2. You are delusional enough that you should be wearing a tigerhawk on your shirt.

Hate this argument.
Did the refs physically change the score of the game to make UVA win?
No.
Did they affect the momentum and style of the game?
yes.
To say otherwise is straight denial.
 

jdoggivjc

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Impossible. If Georges doesn't sit for a few mins we don't give up 60+ points in the paint and get a couple rebounds.

At least 16 of those 60+ points were due to transition dunks resulting from them breaking our full court press when we were desperate to do anything to try and get back into the game in the final minutes.

Yet you keep ignoring the FACT that ISU had cut the Virginia lead to 7 points and had all the momentum when the refs called the bull**** phantom 4th foul on Niang, and we never got the game closer.

But yeah - keep arguing that one call cannot impact the outcome of a game.
 

HFCS

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Seems to me that if we get to the point where refs are calling fouls based on what's best for the fans or for tv ratings that we've done something very wrong. I don't think going to 6 fouls would be a bad thing though.

In some ways that's what the NBA is and I find NBA so much more fun to watch, especially playoffs. Obviously the players and coaches being better is the main reason but officiating and some rules differences also are a big reason.

Kobe and LBJ getting the calls is a lot more consistent than what goes on at the college level. Another great example is Curry gets the calls even though his jersey says he plays for a historically crappy team, they don't hold Golden State against him like most college refs would. That would never happen in college basketball, some decent player is going to get better calls with KU or Duke on their jersey than a much better player like Niang without the blue blood stamp on him. I don't think it's some vast conspiracy, it's just a result of nearly 400 programs and inferior officials.
 

BCClone

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What drove me nuts was George's got called twice for the same thing UV bigs did down low for the base runner most of the night. I even saw one screen before George's first where the guard came in and looked like an offensive lineman on Georges or McKay and had his shoulder into them chopping their feet, but none of these were called.
 

HFCS

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If you think officiating won this game for UVA:

1. You didn't watch the game I watched
OR
2. You are delusional enough that you should be wearing a tigerhawk on your shirt.

Read my post.

I didn't say that.

In fact in another post I said UVA looked like the better team. Thank you for being a better poster in the future.
 

HFCS

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Impossible. If Georges doesn't sit for a few mins we don't give up 60+ points in the paint and get a couple rebounds.

Literally nobody is saying that.

Some are saying that officiating had no effect on the game (some would say any game) which is even more ridiculous than this.
 

dfwcy

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Read my post.

I didn't say that.

In fact in another post I said UVA looked like the better team. Thank you for being a better poster in the future.


There is a very good reason why they looked like the better team. Wanna guess what it is?
 

jdoggivjc

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Is there a reason you are being a complete a s s hat?

Some people will become an outright tool box just so they're not "that guy" that blames any loss on the refs - to the point where anyone that suggests that any referee decision has any outcome on the game must be lambasted.
 

HFCS

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There is a very good reason why they looked like the better team. Wanna guess what it is?

In the first half they were simply outplaying us. Maybe getting a little edge from refs.

The whole game it was obvious Niang was the best on the court, even better than Michael Brogdon Jordan. In the second half their team still looked better but it seemed like Niang maybe could steal one for us. We'll never know. It's entirely possible he'd have been too gassed if the officials let the best player play instead of sidelining him.
 

3TrueFans

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In some ways that's what the NBA is and I find NBA so much more fun to watch, especially playoffs. Obviously the players and coaches being better is the main reason but officiating and some rules differences also are a big reason.

Kobe and LBJ getting the calls is a lot more consistent than what goes on at the college level. Another great example is Curry gets the calls even though his jersey says he plays for a historically crappy team, they don't hold Golden State against him like most college refs would. That would never happen in college basketball, some decent player is going to get better calls with KU or Duke on their jersey than a much better player like Niang without the blue blood stamp on him. I don't think it's some vast conspiracy, it's just a result of nearly 400 programs and inferior officials.

They guy who complains constantly about refs making bad calls thinks it's a good thing to base calls on what makes games more exciting?