Boozer?
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I do think it's fun. It's fun to go through every respected coach and to see that they took their teams to the postseason by year 3.
I know with Tubby, he came into a program that was behind ISU 3 years ago, and took them to the postseason in each of his first 2 years. Minnesota was a program decimated by scandal, turmoil, players leaving early, more so than ISU was...
In his first year, he took a crap team (9-22 the previous year) filled with the previous coaches' recruits, and made them 20-13 and took them to the NIT.
Something that has to be realized is that building a basketball program is not like football in that it takes a long time. With football you have to wait for so many pieces to develop, that it takes a while.
With basketball, it takes a couple guys, and the right coach to right the ship...
Are you really comparing Tubby Smith to Greg Mcdermott? Talk about apples to oranges.
How so? They both coach programs with similar histories, and they get paid almost the same base salary.
Well let's see..... Tubby has won a national championship, he came from Kentucky which is one of the most storied programs in the country. He's an African American which does not hurt a thing. He's 10 to 15 years further in his career as a coach than ours. He's what Greg could be down the road.
He's going to get recruits knocking on his door just because of the above reason that McDermott dreams of. Not to menition Minnesota is in a Metro area and has big budget which also appeals to recruits.
I'm probably missing a few other things.
I disagree with the bolded. Most African American head coaches aren't given a fair shot. Remember Tubby got RAN out of Kentucky like he wasn't anything....
Here's what I see with the two:
1) They both coached in the MVC
2) They get paid a similar base salary. If the same amount can get you Tubby, then you shouldn't pay that much to get a coach of a lower tier...
3) Both programs they coach had a TON of headaches. You realize MN LOST 20 games the year before Tubby got there
4) While the MN metro has exceptional basketball compared to Iowa, it's still tough to recruit to MN. Even with Tubby's name, it's hard to get some of the National Recruits to come to MN, as many want to go to places with better location.
Do you remember the names thrown out there when LE was gone? 6-7 years ago, we could've hired another big name coach to lead the program. I do not know for sure about 3-4 years ago, as I wasn't following closely.
ISU plays in a BCS conference, has a very supportive fan base, plays in a great arena, etc. There's no reason why they couldn't get a well respected coach....
Huh??? Tubby's made it big, and I think that's a great thing and that's what I'm saying.
You're discounting most everything Tubby has accomplished which helps him recruit and reducing it to simply pay, coach in MVC? Based on those two things you're saying they should be equal?
Recruiting Minneapolis relative to Ames and a kid from New York or Chicago is not going to prefer one to the other?
What I am trying to say is that this is the Big 12. This is the big boys. You are going to compared compared to the level of all the coaches period.
At this level, you get paid a lot and are expected to produce. You go out and recruit against the big programs, play against the big programs, etc.
I can go through heaps of examples of programs with little to no basketball tradition, sign the right coach, and make them a respected program within 3 years.
IMO, there's no handicapping this. If McDermott doesn't want to get compared to the big coaches, then he can go back to the MVC or to the Horizion League, or somewhere else.
He can build a good mid-major program, and he's out of his league here...
Going back to Tubby for a sec. His first year at MN, it was Monson's guys. There was 1 Tubby Player that year. He took their guys with a 20 loss record and made it a 20 win record the following year with practically the same team as the year before. There was no recruiting. It was all Xs and Os, and motivation. It was knowing how to coach.
The subsequent years, then he was able to recruit nationally ranked classes, etc., and that's where your argument is more valid...
Again poor comparison. Did Tubby only have 4 or 5 scholarship players left on the team like Greg did?
You're right about one thing. This is the Big Leagues and Greg will be compared, but you're wrong to say both Tubby Smith and Greg Mcdermott and had been delt the same cards. Tubby's deck is stacked and he's already won one the World Poker series once.
This is kinda like saying GM is exactly the same as Toyota.
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Billy G didn't take Kentucky to a NCAA championship and didn't lead them to the NCAA tourney every year he was there...
The decked wasn't stacked his first year there.
Also, you are right that they weren't dealt the same cards. Tubby took over AFTER MN's worst season in their history. In that regard, McDermott took over a program in better shape.
Like I said before, when it's your first year, you're coaching a team filled with guys you didn't bring to the program. It's all about coaching. None of that other stuff you keep bringing up matters. Winning a NCAA championship at Kentucky doesn't do anything for you when you've got a group of guys who didn't even win 10 games the year before.
Taking a 20 loss team and making them a 20 win NIT team in that first year doesn't have anything to do with Tubby's name recognition or his ability to recruit.
Actually it's more about having bodies and Tubby had them.
You are naive my friend...
The biggest difference between Tubby coming into Minnesota and McDermott coming into ISU was that Tubby understood how to coach and recruit for major conference MBB, while McDermott didn't. Three years later, it appears that McDermott is starting to get the recruiting part of major conference MBB figured out. Whether McDermott has figured out the coaching aspect remains to be seen.
In the Big 12, there are only two coaches who didn't have major conference playing or coaching experience (head or assistant) prior to taking a Big 12 head coaching job: McDermott and Scott Drew. In the Big Ten there are three: Lickliter, Carmody, and Matta.
Matta is really the only one of the five who exploded right out of the gate. Drew's first winning season was his fifth. Carmody only has 2 winning seasons, and is under .500 in nine seasons at NWU, desipte being .786 at his previous job (Princeton). We all know how things are going for McDermott and Lickliter.
While major conference experience doesn't guarantee winning, it would seem that not having major conference experience of some type is generally not conducive to quick turn-arounds. Matta is the exception, not the rule...
In the Big 12, there are only two coaches who didn't have major conference playing or coaching experience (head or assistant) prior to taking a Big 12 head coaching job: McDermott and Scott Drew. In the Big Ten there are three: Lickliter, Carmody, and Matta.
Matta is really the only one of the five who exploded right out of the gate. Drew's first winning season was his fifth. Carmody only has 2 winning seasons, and is under .500 in nine seasons at NWU, desipte being .786 at his previous job (Princeton). We all know how things are going for McDermott and Lickliter.
While major conference experience doesn't guarantee winning, it would seem that not having major conference experience of some type is generally not conducive to quick turn-arounds. Matta is the exception, not the rule...
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Dude I just sincerely hope that when we make the tournament this year and turn the corner that you are never heard from around here again. It's easily apparent from your posts that you don't want to see McDermott succeed here and would rather see us have a bad season next year than a successful one just so you can say that you were right all along.
Makes me sick and I hope you don't approach your own life with the same kind of mentality as you "support" "your" basketball team. :no:
This thing is getting pretty long and have not read all 10 pages, but I hope Boozer sticks around. If Lucca does leave, I think Boozer should get a shot at starting at the 2 guard - he should get a shot either way, but if Lucca does leave I think he can develop into a solid 12 points / game with this team next year. He made strides this year and looked good when he got the chance to play.
I'm a big fan of him and hope he sticks it out one more year and can help turn ISU in a tournament bound team.
I'm a big fan of him and hope he sticks it out one more year and can help turn ISU in a tournament bound team.
Who compared McD's pay now to Coach K's 25+ year ago? Talk about crazy.
Why do people compare base pay? Base pay means very little.
Did someone really compare the situation at Minnesota to ISU? Are they familiar with the number of players that state produces each year?
Why do people compare base pay? Base pay means very little.
Did someone really compare the situation at Minnesota to ISU? Are they familiar with the number of players that state produces each year?
Step back and think a little. How did ANYTHING I say, imply I don't want to see McDermott succeed?
I buy 4 season tickets a year! Why would I want to go to 20 games a year and watch the team do poorly?
To many on here, thinking our coach isn't doing his job well, implies that I want to see him do badly and this isn't the case at all. I want to see us do well.
When us taxpayers and season ticket holders are paying a coach what McDermott's getting paid, we expect him to do a better job.
When other schools are paying similar and doing better, it is very frustrating.
I'm not attacking some high school coach or a rec coach here, and your response is like this.
I want to see us do well. I just do not think McDermott is the person for the job. That does not mean I'll root against him.
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