Bubu Suing ISU

[cyhiphopp]

Angie, here's one thing that I don't think you addressed in your points above.

I believe the biggest mistake that Leath made was making his final decision AFTER the deadline for Bubu to transfer to another school. Nothing prevented him from making a timely decision. If he was dead set that Bubu was never going to play for Iowa State again, then he should have made that decision known in a timely manner.

By waiting until after the deadline it forced Bubu to not be able to play basketball at any school that year. He then had to wait until after the 2014 draft to sign with a D-League team.

You seem to be arguing that ISU had no obligation to allow Bubu to play. That's fine. But there's no reason Leath couldn't have made his decision earlier so that Bubu could have played elsewhere.

 

[MeowingCows]

You know I like you, too.

Here's a brief summary of what I think:

- In the original case, I think Bubu got off on a technicality. I think the victim was an idiot to get drunk and not be near friends, and I think she was an idiot to fabricate the evidence. But I still think a drunk and high Bubu went in for seconds after his friend raped her, but he got off because the victim was dumb. Being drunk and high doesn't mean that you're innocent, however. I think it's icky of him to try to go after her in court, but I guess it's his legal right, so whatevs.

- To me, I think that ISU has the right to grant and take away access to all university resources at any time for justifiable reason. I think it's incredibly unlikely that a man as smart as Leath looked at evidence that was actually insufficient and still made an unpopular decision, that's not logical. I think the evidence he saw was pretty damning, and so he took a long time (some would argue longer than he should have, but he was holding a kid's future in his hands as well as a girl's safety) to come to that decision so as not to misstep.

- I personally think that it should have been an all-or-nothing decision to either kick him entirely off campus and the team, or keep him on both. It's like the whole "allowing religious exemptions for vaccines in school" thing - it seems like a weak approach. But I'm guessing it was based off of not wanting to get sued. That clearly didn't work.

- I think Bubu is angry for the wrong reasons, at the wrong people, and is lashing out. Be mad at your buddy who put you in the situation. Be mad at yourself. But ISU gave him opportunities that he, from all accounts, did not have before he walked onto the court.

- I think a lawsuit based off of "lost wages" is silly. There's just no evidence that indicates he had (or currently has) the talent to even go to Europe to play. He chose not to go to the d-league last year in order to pursue a grudge case against ISU. That's not really their problem.

I think this is an overall good kid who has made some bad choices in friends and influences. I think he did something abhorrent here. Does that mean that's who he is overall? Not likely, but it doesn't excuse what he did.

Where was this earlier in the thread? These are all level-headed and logical ideas with no hyperbole, snark, or smugness mixed in, in contrast to other posts and posters...

I agree with you on a lot of things, such as Bubu being mad at the wrong people/lashing out/etc. and really just needing to leave the situation buried as it is.

However, one part I disagree with is this: "I think it's incredibly unlikely that a man as smart as Leath looked at evidence that was actually insufficient and still made an unpopular decision, that's not logical." I don't think this was the unpopular decision, this is actually what public opinion expected the university to do, like LawyerClone said much earlier with public opinion always expecting firm and swift action from the universities as soon as situations like this happen. I think he was trying to act directly and only in the interest of the University's public reputation at that time. Instead, now we have this garbage going on in the future instead of taking the steps necessary to end it back when it was still "under control."

Can he sue for all of these reasons and actually win something? I don't know for sure, but I honestly don't think so. But, to deny there is a reasonable argument for it seems absurd to me. Lost wages? Well, that's tricky and subjective. That's why I think best-case scenario here for Bubu is some kind of out-of-court settlement ends to ordeal, because I think he would lose the case in the long run, and there's no doubt that ISU will drag this out as long as they need to if he doesn't accept an offer.

 

[MeowingCows]

Oh, and I didn't even bring up the part about the whole timing of the decision being made. Throw that in there somewhere, too.

 

[carvers4math]

If you commit a crime as a minor I believe that a juvenile court has jurisdiction and the prosecutor has to work to get it moved and try you as an adult.

Per the Rag:

In Iowa, anyone age 15 or older facing a similar felony sex charge, which can bring up to 10 years in prison if convicted, is typically tried in adult court.

Greene County case and I messed up the link.

 

[cyhiphopp]

Oh, and I didn't even bring up the part about the whole timing of the decision being made. Throw that in there somewhere, too.

I think that's the main point of the lawsuit. Leath prevented Bubu from playing his senior season because he did not make his decision in time for Bubu to transfer.

 

[runbikeswim]

I just have to believe that Leath had full legal risk assessment counsel on this before he made the decision. Bubu should put his time and money into his future not his past.

 

[jbhtexas]

Angie, here's one thing that I don't think you addressed in your points above.

I believe the biggest mistake that Leath made was making his final decision AFTER the deadline for Bubu to transfer to another school. Nothing prevented him from making a timely decision. If he was dead set that Bubu was never going to play for Iowa State again, then he should have made that decision known in a timely manner.

By waiting until after the deadline it forced Bubu to not be able to play basketball at any school that year. He then had to wait until after the 2014 draft to sign with a D-League team.

You seem to be arguing that ISU had no obligation to allow Bubu to play. That's fine. But there's no reason Leath couldn't have made his decision earlier so that Bubu could have played elsewhere.

Leath addressed some of those time line questions – along with other issues - prior to ISU’s game Saturday against Kansas State at Hilton Coliseum.

“The appeal came to me June 10,†said Leath. “The parties thought it was reasonable I give them two weeks to provide information, and then they wanted two weeks to rebut. So there the first month was gone.â€

Leath said he then had a “long-scheduled, multi-week trip to Africa as part of ISU’s program over there†and did not return until August.

“I wanted to do a thorough, careful job,†said Leath, “so I asked all parties would they have any objections about waiting until the end of the month. Nobody had any objections.

“And Mr. Palo’s attorney talked to (ISU athletic director) Jamie (Pollard) to make sure we would approve a waiver if there were any concerns about him transferring, and we assured him we would. They never asked us for one.

“So actually the time line seemed very fair and reasonable despite the way some people have portrayed it.â€

http://amestrib.com/news/men-s-basketball-leath-addresses-palo-situation

 

[Angie]

Angie, here's one thing that I don't think you addressed in your points above.

I believe the biggest mistake that Leath made was making his final decision AFTER the deadline for Bubu to transfer to another school. Nothing prevented him from making a timely decision. If he was dead set that Bubu was never going to play for Iowa State again, then he should have made that decision known in a timely manner.

By waiting until after the deadline it forced Bubu to not be able to play basketball at any school that year. He then had to wait until after the 2014 draft to sign with a D-League team.

You seem to be arguing that ISU had no obligation to allow Bubu to play. That's fine. But there's no reason Leath couldn't have made his decision earlier so that Bubu could have played elsewhere.

I thought I had addressed that. I do think that Leath took a long time to make this decision. I think he did it because it was a big, huge decision with more repercussions than just on the basketball court. He had to weigh public safety, he had to weigh how this would look in the press (and it's been everywhere, from the Trib to ESPN), he had to weigh in a kid who loved Ames and ISU who made a terrible decision. I guess I would prefer he took his time doing all of that? That means that it wasn't just a snap judgment.

Where was this earlier in the thread? These are all level-headed and logical ideas with no hyperbole, snark, or smugness mixed in, in contrast to other posts and posters...

I agree with you on a lot of things, such as Bubu being mad at the wrong people/lashing out/etc. and really just needing to leave the situation buried as it is.

However, one part I disagree with is this: "I think it's incredibly unlikely that a man as smart as Leath looked at evidence that was actually insufficient and still made an unpopular decision, that's not logical." I don't think this was the unpopular decision, this is actually what public opinion expected the university to do, like LawyerClone said much earlier with public opinion always expecting firm and swift action from the universities as soon as situations like this happen. I think he was trying to act directly and only in the interest of the University's public reputation at that time. Instead, now we have this garbage going on in the future instead of taking the steps necessary to end it back when it was still "under control."

Can he sue for all of these reasons and actually win something? I don't know for sure, but I honestly don't think so. But, to deny there is a reasonable argument for it seems absurd to me. Lost wages? Well, that's tricky and subjective. That's why I think best-case scenario here for Bubu is some kind of out-of-court settlement ends to ordeal, because I think he would lose the case in the long run, and there's no doubt that ISU will drag this out as long as they need to if he doesn't accept an offer.

I think the fact that I usually argue without emotion comes across as snark, but is actually void of emotion. I do respond to snark in kind, but almost all of these posts were elsewhere in the thread.

I think that people maybe see something they've done in the past in what Bubu did. Probably not to the same degree, but maybe they hooked up with a girl while she was a little drunker than ideal. And I don't think it sits well. I understand that, I get defensive sometimes when I feel like I'm being called wrong.

 

[brett108]

I don't think you understand what "people can get paid for playing basketball in leagues other than the NBA" means.

You mean 25-30K? Or is he going to the Harlem Globe Trotters? If he were good enough to play overseas he would. If he were good enough to play in the NBA someone would have taken him on by now. What did he miss if he is currently playing in the D league that one year of college ball playing behind Korie Lucious would have gotten him?

 

[VeloClone]

Per the Rag:

In Iowa, anyone age 15 or older facing a similar felony sex charge, which can bring up to 10 years in prison if convicted, is typically tried in adult court.

Greene County case and I messed up the link.

In most states they still start in juvenile court and are transferred to adult court. I don't know what the law says in Iowa it is unclear if they are generally moved or start in adult court by the quote.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/juveniles-youth-adult-criminal-court-32226.html

 

[brett108]

You didn't say higher-level, you said marginal. Many of our recent transfers had left their previous schools do to some kind of legal or university trouble, and a lot of them were marginal-to-good talents at the time they came in.

I'm not saying we brought in the next Kobe or LeBron. We brought in average-to-good players that other schools wouldn't be arsed to deal with.

Huh?
McKay was one of the best JUCO players in the country and recruited by everyone with availability. He was not a marginal talent. Deonte Burton was a top 30 guy leaving high school. Also not a marginal talent. Who are you referring too? Bowie is the first transfer we have had since Anderson who I would say is marginally talented. All the others have been solid 4 star or super productive guys who were impact players, or at the very least recruits, in their previous programs.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

People are over simplifying this. I shouldn't be surprised but in the end no one knows how this affected Bubu. To say he should just move on is foolish. It's his life.

 

[carvers4math]

http://amestrib.com/news/men-s-basketball-leath-addresses-palo-situation

Thanks for quoting the Trib article. I knew that I read somewhere that Leath had contacted Palo's attorney before the trip to Africa.

 

[CyAg]

One point of note, since it seems the delay is crucial in this matter and Leath blew it by waiting. If my memory is correct, somewhere in past court information or media, there is a timeline listed and as part of that Leath communicated with Bubu's counsel on if there were any objections for a later response to allow for full consideration.. I believe it was shown his counsel had no objections. Again, this would need to be verified but I am pretty sure it was something to this effect. If so, it may undermine some of the current suit assertations. He has every right to sue. I think it is a wrong decision to, but he has the right.

 

[MeowingCows]

I think that's the main point of the lawsuit. Leath prevented Bubu from playing his senior season because he did not make his decision in time for Bubu to transfer.

I get that, but I see where Angie's points on the compensation part of it are coming from: I'm not sure that Bubu will be able to really prove any monetary damages from that, due to how subjective all of the potential damages are. It's going to be hard to prove that Leath's decision directly impacted opportunities A, B, C, ... that Bubu had, or to prove that those opportunities would have 100% surely panned out had the decision been implemented differently. Secondly, I think it'll be tough to actually put dollar value on those missed opportunities. It's tricky in that respect.

 

[jbhtexas]

Thanks for quoting the Trib article. I knew that I read somewhere that Leath had contacted Palo's attorney before the trip to Africa.

The facts of the situation are out there for all to see. It is sad to see posters here deny and twist those facts to disparage Leath and support Bubu Palo. It's difficult to understand.

 

[MeowingCows]

I think the fact that I usually argue without emotion comes across as snark, but is actually void of emotion. I do respond to snark in kind, but almost all of these posts were elsewhere in the thread.

I think that people maybe see something they've done in the past in what Bubu did. Probably not to the same degree, but maybe they hooked up with a girl while she was a little drunker than ideal. And I don't think it sits well. I understand that, I get defensive sometimes when I feel like I'm being called wrong.

In fairness, that same logic could be applied to the other side as well: people who can see themselves or close friends in the victim, so as to sympathize to that more than what would be logically fair as well. That definitely goes both ways.

 

[MeowingCows]

http://amestrib.com/news/men-s-basketball-leath-addresses-palo-situation

Well, if his counsel was directly allowing Leath and the University to drag their feet, I don't really see how this is going to work in Bubu's favor. Bubu's lawyer(s) apparently do(es), as they are pursuing this in the first place, but I don't see a good setup here for him.

This is why I do not study law as a profession.

 

[Gossamer]

People are over simplifying this. I shouldn't be surprised but in the end no one knows how this affected Bubu. To say he should just move on is foolish. It's his life.

This is a very succinct version of my thoughts.

 

[cyhiphopp]

http://amestrib.com/news/men-s-basketball-leath-addresses-palo-situation

Interesting. I'm surprised his lawyers let the decision drag out.

They are still going to sue, so we'll see what happens I guess.