Let's end some myths

[Drive4cy]

The guy is selling satellite dishes for crying out load. Defend all you want, there is a long list of schools that didn't go after him once he was released from his contract at ISU.

A guy selling satellite dishes never finished below .500 for a season and won in the NCAA tournament, yet Greg can't accomplish either task at the same job.

.....

Frankly, the entire Morgan "debate" is pointless. People refuse to give him any credit and that's the way it is. I never had a problem with Morgan as our coach. He had his strengths and weaknesses just like everybody else.

Greg is our coach now and for 1 more year. No use belly-aching about it or taking cheap shots at former coaches.

 

[JCREEK]

Academics, going to class and being good citizens. He had us heading for big problems. If he was a good coach he would be coaching Duh!!! He was not and is not working. He was a good recruiter Bruce Van Develde the idiot screwed things up for a while we will return again..

 

[cykadelic2]

I actually get tired of defending Morgan, but I've stated before that as long as some keep posting rumors and opinions that ignore the facts, I'll keep defending Morgan. Myth 1 is that Morgan could recruit but couldn't coach. Then how do people explain that he beat many ranked teams that had NBA talent while he had none of his own. His record against ranked teams is far better than even Orr, Floyd and LE, who had pros like Grayer, Hornacek, Hoiberg, Cato, Fizer and Tinsley to work with. Another myth is that his practices were unorganized chaos (though that's contradicted by some). So again how did he beat those ranked teams and go 5-2 in the NIT and NCAA? Don't most coaches say that a team plays like it practices? Again a myth that holds no water. Another myth is that Morgan had undisciplined players that some have called thugs. George is the only player I can think of who got in trouble and he was booted immediately. In fact I haven't heard of any of Morgan's kids in any trouble since they graduated. Fact is almost all of Morgan's recruits were good kids and still are. Fact is Morgan did a very good job at ISU, especially taking over a program in scandal and having trouble getting anybody to take the job. Defend Mac all you want, just don't do it by dissing Morgan because that's ignoring the facts.

Give it up. He got fired twice and nobody hired him for a hoops job since he left ISU. And by the way, you forgot to mention that slush fund called D1 Scheduling he set up in SoCal. That helped get him fired as well as two other coaches at Iona and LA Tech.

 

[snowcraig2.0]

Academics, going to class and being good citizens. He had us heading for big problems. If he was a good coach he would be coaching Duh!!! He was not and is not working. He was a good recruiter Bruce Van Develde the idiot screwed things up for a while we will return again..

Does your mom know you are using the computer this late?

 

[snowcraig2.0]

Where we missed the boat was when BVD fired LE. Wayne feeding Larry talent could have lead to something really special in Ames.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Where we missed the boat was when BVD fired LE. Dwayne feeding Larry talent could have lead to something really special in Ames.

I agree with this but I can most certainly understand that firing. That may be the one single event that cost us more than anything. By event I mean Eustachy being a *******. Really, there was no choice but to fire him after that deal.

 

[snowcraig2.0]

Wrong, companies stand by employees all the time who have alcohol problems. BVD hated Larry, and Larry hated Bruce. The truth is, if Pete was still alive, Larry probably would never have been let go.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Wrong, companies stand by employees all the time who have alcohol problems. BVD hated Larry, and Larry hated Bruce. The truth is, if Pete was still alive, Larry probably would never have been let go.

Having an alcohol problem and partying with college kids and getting caught with photos as the highest paid state employee are two completely different things. That's not even considering it was after a game in the opponents town. He was making a ton of money to be the figurehead of this program and he was a very large figure for the State of Iowa. You don't do that **** and expect to keep your job.

 

[cyatheart]

The last year Wayne was here teams ran up and down on us and it was embarrassing. Say what you want about GMAC, Wayne couldn't lead a whor to bed. The 2005 team dramatically underperformed, he had an excellent backcourt and one of the nations best post players and barely managed to get in the tournament. This concept that Wayne was a good coach is laughable. GMAC might not be a great coach, but that by default doesn't make Wayne good either.

 

[Ficklone02]

The only bouhaha is in some threads on some internet message boards. I doubt that Wayne has the time or inclination to sit and go through a bunch of posts and gloat over a few persons spouting off.

LOL at this! I'm talking about our performance on the court, not some dramatic interweb theorems.

 

[mikeiastat]

mikeiastat-We're still not connecting on this. My point was you can't say the Morgan trend was down based on one year when he did better his second year than his first. And you just can't discard GMac's first year because you want to, and if you did his conference winning percentage would actually be worse since he won more conference games his first year than any other. He's been below 6 ever since and is now at 4, so any way you slice it, that's going the wrong way.

I'm connecting just fine. I don't know how you aren't getting it. I'm not just discarding mac's first year because I want to. here are the trends. You can look at Conf wins if you want to. Then there isn't a trend for Morgan, but he went from 8 and last 6 and do you think he was going to do better or worse losing scholarships? Not a trend yet, but sure looking like it was going to be.

More importantly to the NCAA tourney hopes are his rpi's The numbers supported that he was less and less deserving of a bid to the NCAA. Yes they did get invited to the dance 04-05, but that was an inconsistancy that doesn't happen very offten. And today I don't think would happen.

I guess we'll see if Illinois gets in, but the NCAA is looking less and less at BCS conference record each year, and more and more at rpi, and OOC Scheduling. Fact is in the ouside world (outside of the BIG XII) the teams continued to get worse and were going to have a very hard time getting better, with the loss of schollies coming his way. And again not the only evidence of decline.

03-04 RPI Rank: 56 SOS Rank: 43 Record: 19-13 (8-10)
04-05 RPI Rank: 71 SOS Rank: 76 Record: 19-12 (10-8)
05-06 RPI Rank: 92 SOS Rank: 39 Record: 15-14 (6-11)

06-07 RPI Rank: 130 SOS Rank: 86 Record: 14-16 (6-11)
07-08 RPI Rank: 179 SOS Rank: 76 Record: 13-18 (4-13)
08-09 RPI Rank: 168 SOS Rank: 90 Record: 14-17 (4-13)
09-10 RPI Rank: 114 SOS Rank: 39 Record: 15-16 (4-12)

Mac's 4 year trend is down yes, I have acknowleged that, but if a company turns things around at some point you have to look at the most substantial trend. At worst, the most substantial trend is that of big xII wins as FLAT. And more importantly to the NCAA tournament hopes (RPI) is up for the last 3 years. Like you said one year does not make a trend.

If Google came on the market at 300 a share, was inflated and droped to 100 in year 2, then had 3 years of growth back up to say 250, do you think the market analysts would say that the company was trending down? No, none that knew what they were talking about would. the most dominant Trend for big XII wins only, is currently flat, but to the rest of the world our current RPI dominant trend is up significantly. I'm getting what you are saying, you just don't undersand outliers. The only true trend here is the three year for Mac and the RPI for morgan.

I get it and I hope you do too, now.

 

[Palmer]

The last year Wayne was here teams ran up and down on us and it was embarrassing. Say what you want about GMAC, Wayne couldn't lead a whor to bed. The 2005 team dramatically underperformed, he had an excellent backcourt and one of the nations best post players and barely managed to get in the tournament. This concept that Wayne was a good coach is laughable. GMAC might not be a great coach, but that by default doesn't make Wayne good either.

Both GMac and Morgan would strike out at the Mustang Ranch

 

[jdoggivjc]

When has losing on the road to Xavier become a bad loss? Iona made the NCAA tourny that year. And if you read all the posts, I was only defending Morgan when people were saying he lost to all these bad teams and wasnt consistant. Proving the fact that McDermott isn't consistent either, but Morgan won WAY more big games and brought in WAY more Big 12 talent.

Considering Xavier went 16-11 that year, I'd hardly say it was a good loss for them...

Xavier College Basketball - Musketeers Schedule - Men's Basketball - ESPN

And the argument that is made every single time that McDermott's ISU teams lose to Northern Iowa is that an ISU team should NEVER lose to UNI. Well, considering the MVC >>>>> MAAC (the conference Iona plays in), why is it excusable for Morgan to lose to a "tournament-worthy" Iona team, but it's not excusable for McDermott to lose to a "tournament-worthy" Northern Iowa team

The bottom line, just about any time anyone makes an argument as to why McDermott should be fired or why Morgan shouldn't have been, it's based on a Straw man argument - McDermott should be fired because Morgan never had his failures (most of which are false), or Morgan should have never been fired because most of McDermott's tenure has been a failure (which is where I make the argument that this is a non-credible argument because one has nothing to do with the other).

If you think that McDermott should be fired (and at this point I'm more sympathetic to the argument than not), use arguments on why you think that McDermott should be fired instead of arguing that he should be because Morgan was fired unjustly. Conversely, if someone thinks that Morgan shouldn't have been fired, argue that point instead of using the argument that he should have been kept because McDermott has been a failure. Stay away from straw man arguments, and A. your arguments will be much credible, and B. you won't sound like such a whiny *****...

(note - this rant isn't necessarily directed at cyclone3425, but directed at everyone, particularly those making the straw man arguments)

 

[cycloneworld]

A guy selling satellite dishes never finished below .500 for a season and won in the NCAA tournament, yet Greg can't accomplish either task at the same job.

.....

Frankly, the entire Morgan "debate" is pointless. People refuse to give him any credit and that's the way it is. I never had a problem with Morgan as our coach. He had his strengths and weaknesses just like everybody else.

Greg is our coach now and for 1 more year. No use belly-aching about it or taking cheap shots at former coaches.

This. The only problem is that the guy who had some moderate success after cleaning up the LE disaster was fired after 3 seasons.

Yet McDermott has nearly 0 successes and gets a 5th year...and possibly more.

I'm as big of a JP fan as there is but I wish someone had the stones to ask him why that is.

 

[jdoggivjc]

Wrong, companies stand by employees all the time who have alcohol problems. BVD hated Larry, and Larry hated Bruce. The truth is, if Pete was still alive, Larry probably would never have been let go.

Dunno about the bolded, but otherwise I completely agree with what you say. Pete was legendary, but how much influence did he really have in the athletic department? My opinion - BVD was a pompous *** that got his way, anyone else's opinion's be ******, particularly in fixing ISU's budget woes, where he used a hacksaw to make cuts instead of using the surgical scalpel he should have used.

Basically, the way BVD and Larry hated each other, Larry was gone, no matter what Pete had to say.

 

[Dave19642006]

Another myth..... McD's magic is electrifing

 

[mikeiastat]

This. The only problem is that the guy who had some moderate success after cleaning up the LE disaster was fired after 3 seasons.

Yet McDermott has nearly 0 successes and gets a 5th year...and possibly more.

I'm as big of a JP fan as there is but I wish someone had the stones to ask him why that is.

Saying 5000000000 times doens't make it so. 0 successes it completely blind. Please bring something to the arguement. It has been asked a thousand times and proven to be a stupid statment by many of the donors, and die hard fans that I know. You can argue that Mac has failed a number of areas. But to say 0 success is just plain stupid. Can you please bring something new to the table that hasn't been re-hashed and debunked.

Your crap has been addressed, yet you add nothing to the argument other than whiney wit of stones. Throughout the thread it has been acknowledged what you claim and yet you ask the same stupid question once more.

 

[CYKOFAN]

For the umpteenth time Morgan is almost 60 years old. Many people would be thrilled to be retired by 55, especially some basketball coaches that have to deal with a lot of travel and pressure. Maybe Morgan has had enough of it. The fact that Morgan chooses to own a satellite company does nothing to change the fact that he had all winning seasons, went 5-2 in the post season, and had more success against ranked teams than any ISU coach I can think of, and probably the best in ISU history. Again, anybody want to compare that to Greg? But the beat goes on for Morgan bashers where facts continue to be ignored and unsubstantiated rumors and biased opinions become facts.

 

[Palmer]

This thread is till going?

people..they both stink/stunk.

 

[CYKOFAN]

Palmer- Please give me the kind of stink that gives us winning seasos, big wins over ranked teams and post season fun. I'm not saying Morgan is a great coach, but certainly better than he is being given credit for by some.