***Official Montgomery and Butler NFL Thread***

Sigmapolis

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Grantland, err, The Ringer has Butler going #19 overall to the Titans...

http://nfldraft.theringer.com/?_ga=2.112024388.1572917701.1551721529-99675108.1494252597

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SCOUTING REPORT

A lanky frame, massive hands, and an impossibly long wingspan give Butler an otherworldly catch radius; he can go up high over the defense to bring down a pass, and his highlight reel is peppered with circus catches. Butler isn’t super quick in the short area, but runs sideline routes a little bit like Usain Bolt runs his races—he’s sluggish and leggy out of the blocks but has the build-up speed on the back half of his route to run past just about everyone. That speed makes the former Cyclones star a first-rate big-play threat: He ranked third in the country with an average of 21.97 yards per catch in 2018; his career average of 19.5 yards per catch ranks third all time in the Big 12; and he racked up 25 receptions of 25-plus yards in 2018, second in the nation. He’s not yet a complete receiver, though. Drops are a concern, and he may have trouble getting off press and separating against über-fast, physical NFL corners on short and intermediate routes. He’s got the size and speed to develop into a dominant outside “X” receiver, but early on, he might have some utility out of the slot, where he can run more quick-hitting hitch routes, get free releases off the line, and showcase his exceptional physicality and balance as a runner after the catch. In the run game, Butler is energetic and enthusiastic as a downfield blocker—on multiple plays from his 2018 tape, he rag-dolled opposing corners, throwing them to the ground when a run was coming his way.

WHY HE COULD RISE

Butler’s an outstanding athlete with extraordinary size, a rare catch radius, the deep speed to stretch a defense, and a competitive attitude in all areas.

WHY HE COULD FALL

He’s still a raw piece of clay who drops too many passes and needs to refine his route-running to better separate underneath.
 
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HFCS

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All that means is that Colin agreed with it.

Colin said the Big 12 was overrated the year Texas won the NC and went 6-1 in bowls, perfect 7-0 vs the spread. It wasn't just one comment, it was his entire opinion on college football the entire year.

That's my go-to anecdote for the value of his opinions, I mean you couldn't possible be more wrong about something than that. Overrated things don't win national championships and win every single game against the oddsmakers.
 

Clonefan32

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I was just watching some of Butlers highlights because they're so much fun to watch and he is just a freak and i have a question. How is he able to get out of tackles so often when he makes those huge contested catches?

There's highlight after highlight of him making a huge jumping catch and then 2-3 guys can't bring him down and he runs in for a TD. Shouldn't his height make him easy to knock down? his center of gravity is pretty high yup yet he has the the strength and grace to break free and not fall over.

This is why I don't get the "drops" knock on him. I do recall him dropping a handful of easy ones. I imagine they all do, but he did have some drops. But he also made some catches that 99% of the other receivers in the NCAA couldn't make. Surely when you start talking about someone's hands the other-wordly catches have to in some way mitigate the easy drops, right? Plus you'd sure think dropping a handful of easy catches is fixable in the NFL. Drill home technique and set him in front of a jug machine for a few hours.
 
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HFCS

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This is why I don't get the "drops" knock on him. I do recall him dropping a handful of easy ones. I imagine they all do, but he did have some drops. But he also made some catches that 99% of the other receivers in the NCAA couldn't make. Surely when you start talking about someone's hands the other-wordly catches have to in some way mitigate the easy drops, right? Plus you'd sure think dropping a handful of easy catches is fixable in the NFL. Drill home technique and set him in front of a jug machine for a few hours.

It's like a college basketball player who shoots 42% from 3 but only 65% from the line. I'm hesitant to say the kid can't shoot.
 

moores2

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This is why I don't get the "drops" knock on him. I do recall him dropping a handful of easy ones. I imagine they all do, but he did have some drops. But he also made some catches that 99% of the other receivers in the NCAA couldn't make. Surely when you start talking about someone's hands the other-wordly catches have to in some way mitigate the easy drops, right? Plus you'd sure think dropping a handful of easy catches is fixable in the NFL. Drill home technique and set him in front of a jug machine for a few hours.

Look at Treadwell for the Vikings. Sure he can make some incredible catches, but those easy drops at crucial times keep him off the field.
 

Cyclonepride

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Colin said the Big 12 was overrated the year Texas won the NC and went 6-1 in bowls, perfect 7-0 vs the spread. It wasn't just one comment, it was his entire opinion on college football the entire year.

That's my go-to anecdote for the value of his opinions, I mean you couldn't possible be more wrong about something than that. Overrated things don't win national championships and win every single game against the oddsmakers.

Also said that he wouldn't draft Mayfield last year. I don't try to listen to him, but he's on the radio when I go to lunch, so I hear it by default.
 
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Sigmapolis

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It's like a college basketball player who shoots 42% from 3 but only 65% from the line. I'm hesitant to say the kid can't shoot.

You would still scratch your head why he could not make easier, shorter, uncontested ones from a set spot every time yet make longer ones in live game action.

Then again, FT shooting is something you can teach, too.

Lots of time to work on FT shooting/drops when you are playing professionally.
 

HFCS

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Also said that he wouldn't draft Mayfield last year. I don't try to listen to him, but he's on the radio when I go to lunch, so I hear it by default.

Exactly the same for me. They blast him so much that even listening to his promos is enough to know the guy is wrong at least half of the time.

Since I switched to satellite radio I can completely avoid him. When I was getting sports from regular radio and tv there was no getting around his completely idiotic opinions.
 

HFCS

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You would still scratch your head why he could not make easier, shorter, uncontested ones from a set spot every time yet make longer ones in live game action.

Then again, FT shooting is something you can teach, too.

Lots of time to work on FT shooting/drops when you are playing professionally.

Yeah, it's a question but also an opportunity. There's some potential there to take the player who has the rare tricky part down and work on the easier part.

As opposed to some small 3rd down receiver who makes all the fundamental routes and catches but in his entire life will not make Butler's big plays.

Look at Monte Morris's shooting. Monte is one of the best 3 point shooters on planet Earth now. They saw that he had other worldly once in a generation ball handling ability and just decent shooting, took him and signed him for the rare skill, then completely broke down his shot and reworked it. His shot was the easy thing to fix, his ball handling is something almost nobody has ever had.
 

Sigmapolis

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Yeah, it's a question but also an opportunity. There's some potential there to take the player who has the rare tricky part down and work on the easier part.

As opposed to some small 3rd down receiver who makes all the fundamental routes and catches but in his entire life will not make Butler's big plays.

Look at Monte Morris's shooting. Monte is one of the best 3 point shooters on planet Earth now. They saw that he had other worldly once in a generation ball handling ability and just decent shooting, took him and signed him for the rare skill, then completely broke down his shot and reworked it. His shot was the easy thing to fix, his ball handling is something almost nobody has ever had.

I agree with your assessment -- I remember one NFL general manager called it the "planet theory." That there are only so many people on the planet blessed with certain unique talents, size, or athleticism to perform at their various positions at the highest level. Your job is to bring as many of them as you can under your tent and trust your coaches, development staff, and culture to bring them along on the fundamentals, like catching/shooting.

Monté has just squeaked into the Top 20 for 3% this season...

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He is going to play himself into quite the contract at this rate. His PG skills with that shooting is going to have teams lined up around the block for his services.
 

isutrevman

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Colin said the Big 12 was overrated the year Texas won the NC and went 6-1 in bowls, perfect 7-0 vs the spread. It wasn't just one comment, it was his entire opinion on college football the entire year.

That's my go-to anecdote for the value of his opinions, I mean you couldn't possible be more wrong about something than that. Overrated things don't win national championships and win every single game against the oddsmakers.
I also remember him going on a rant about how he'd rather have Mark Sanchez than Aaron Rodgers the year after the Jets made the AFC Championship game because he was a "winner". Green Bay won the super bowl like 3 months later and Rodgers cemented himself as the best 2-3 QBs in the NFL. Mark Sanchez was benched.
 
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HFCS

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I agree with your assessment -- I remember one NFL general manager called it the "planet theory." That there are only so many people on the planet blessed with certain unique talents, size, or athleticism to perform at their various positions at the highest level. Your job is to bring as many of them as you can under your tent and trust your coaches, development staff, and culture to bring them along on the fundamentals, like catching/shooting.

Monté has just squeaked into the Top 20 for 3% this season...

View attachment 62838

He is going to play himself into quite the contract at this rate. His PG skills with that shooting is going to have teams lined up around the block for his services.

Actually he's been 8th-10th most of the season in 3pt% and slipped down to where he is at on a recent slump. Saying he recently fell down to 19th is more accurate than that he just squeaked in.

We agree though. Hardly anybody on the planet can handle the ball like him. I know basketball better than football but I doubt many guys on the planet can catch the deep balls like Butler can. I definitely didn't see better in college football the past few years.
 
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FinalFourCy

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As opposed to some small 3rd down receiver who makes all the fundamental routes and catches but in his entire life will not make Butler's big plays.
You just tried to support Butler going high by comparing him to a mid or late round pick. First round guys usually are thought to make both types of plays, if not already demonstrated to.
 

jdoggivjc

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Colin said the Big 12 was overrated the year Texas won the NC and went 6-1 in bowls, perfect 7-0 vs the spread. It wasn't just one comment, it was his entire opinion on college football the entire year.

That's my go-to anecdote for the value of his opinions, I mean you couldn't possible be more wrong about something than that. Overrated things don't win national championships and win every single game against the oddsmakers.

Colin Cowherd is an elitist. He thinks college football doesn’t exist outside of the Big 10 and SEC, and the only purpose of pro sports teams is to serve as overglorified farm teams for the Yankees, Red Sox, Lakers, Celtics, and Patriots.

As far as Metcalf being a top 10 pick while Butler is a second round guy - well, there’s a reason why it seems like certain teams are always drafting in the top 10 while other teams are always in the playoffs. Some teams know how to draft talent while other teams always find themselves distracted by meaningless measurables that are outshining obvious red flags.
 

HFCS

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You just tried to support Butler going high by comparing him to a mid or late round pick. First round guys usually are thought to make both types of plays, if not already demonstrated to.

I'll readily admit to not being an NFL fan or understanding the draft. I like college football and don't really care for the NFL unlike basketball where I prefer NBA. I see people on this site comment on the NBA draft all the time who obviously aren't NBA fans, I'm probably the same talking about the NFL draft.

All I know is there were not more than one or two college football WRs who were better deep ball threats than Butler. He very likely was the best one in terms of catching balls downfield for big plays. His measurements and speed with those measurements in the combine seem to back up the tapes and stats that he's the biggest downfield threat the way he was in college.
 

dualthreat

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The raiders would be a fun team to watch next fall with Gruden, Carr, Antonio Brown and Butler
 

Gonzo

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Colin Cowherd is an elitist. He thinks college football doesn’t exist outside of the Big 10 and SEC, and the only purpose of pro sports teams is to serve as overglorified farm teams for the Yankees, Red Sox, Lakers, Celtics, and Patriots.

As far as Metcalf being a top 10 pick while Butler is a second round guy - well, there’s a reason why it seems like certain teams are always drafting in the top 10 while other teams are always in the playoffs. Some teams know how to draft talent while other teams always find themselves distracted by meaningless measurables that are outshining obvious red flags.

He grew up and spent his teen years getting shoved into lockers, he now thinks he's cool and overcompensates by hating on the 'little guy'.

He wants to be Steve McQueen, but deep down knows he's David Caruso.
 
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