Steele Jantz.....

[RustShack]

I don't have a dog in this fight; I just want the QB that will give ISU the best chance to win each game -- but this comment is just stupid. All accounts have Barnett as a very hard worker and great student of the game. What makes it a slam dunk that Jantz will improve and Barnett won't?

You have such a HO for Jantz and are so critical of Barnett that it is difficult to even read your posts anymore.

Because Barnett has been playing QB for years and is already pretty far along. You can't coach him up a whole lot more. Jantz its the opposite. He can be and needs coached up more. So while Barnett will likely play about the same next year(obviously he will improve a little), Jantz has the room to improve a lot.

My math might be a little off, but a QB who the coaches already trusted his arm more, he still managed to throw more TD's than INT's, and his completion percentage was better.. how does he not have the room to be a lot better next year?

 

[RustShack]

But I know I know, just like last year in the Jantz/Tiller debate.. common logic doesn't bode well with most of you.

 

[VeloClone]

Because Barnett has been playing QB for years and is already pretty far along. You can't coach him up a whole lot more. Jantz its the opposite. He can be and needs coached up more. So while Barnett will likely play about the same next year(obviously he will improve a little), Jantz has the room to improve a lot.

My math might be a little off, but a QB who the coaches already trusted his arm more, he still managed to throw more TD's than INT's, and his completion percentage was better.. how does he not have the room to be a lot better next year?

They both have room and an inclination to improve. To say that the guy who struggled and got replaced halfway through the season (injury or not, he never really saw the field again) is a slam dunk to beat out the new starter is unrealistic.

 

[CloneAbuse]

To use tipped passes as excuses for Jantz is crazy. Two of the ints against UCONN were tipped by the D = poor passes. Go to espn3 and watch it...I have.

Now, watch how many perfectly thrown balls our receivers dropped that JB threw...they are plentiful...

We were lucky to not be 0-3 in the first 3...to site Steele's late game heroics, you first have to site his poor early play in ALL of those efforts...

 

[VeloClone]

But I know I know, just like last year in the Jantz/Tiller debate.. common logic doesn't bode well with most of you.

To say Jantz has a real chance to improve and take the spot is logical. To say it is a foregone conclusion is not logical.

 

[RustShack]

To use tipped passes as excuses for Jantz is crazy. Two of the ints against UCONN were tipped by the D = poor passes. Go to espn3 and watch it...I have.

Now, watch how many perfectly thrown balls our receivers dropped that JB threw...they are plentiful...

We were lucky to not be 0-3 in the first 3...to site Steele's late game heroics, you first have to site his poor early play in ALL of those efforts...

Yeah, Jantz didn't have those dropped ball either :wideeyed:

There were also some pretty ugly balls throws by Barnett too, and whats even more sad is they were short passes like screens unlike Jantz who's were down the field because he has the arm to make those throws. Maybe you should go to the where we ended up losing because Barnett had a streak of something like 0-13 throwing the ball.

 

[RustShack]

To say Jantz has a real chance to improve and take the spot is logical. To say it is a foregone conclusion is not logical.

This might be better. Odds are in favor of Jantz showing more improvement than Barnett. Much better odds.

 

[VeloClone]

This might be better. Odds are in favor of Jantz showing more improvement than Barnett. Much better odds.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't think he has a better chance of being the starter than Barnett does.

Unnecessary disclaimer: MY OPINION

 

[snowcraig2.0]

I think the main difference is the way they run the ball. Steele is bigger, faster, and has a stronger arm. Barnett runs like a running back, unlike Steele, who runs like a QB. That is the biggest reason JB was able to turn the team around. How much of that is due to the injury? I am not sure. With the way JB runs the ball, it seems pretty likely that we will see Steele at some point regardless.

 

[RustShack]

Don't misunderstand me, I don't think he has a better chance of being the starter than Barnett does.

Unnecessary disclaimer: MY OPINION

Oh I've said it before. I know Barnett is going in the starter. I wouldn't be surprised if there's not an actual competition and Barnett gets most of the snaps. But if they spit snaps like last year, and just go based off of QB ability in practice, Jantz is winning that easy. JMO

 

[RustShack]

I think the main difference is the way they run the ball. Steele is bigger, faster, and has a stronger arm. Barnett runs like a running back, unlike Steele, who runs like a QB. That is the biggest reason JB was able to turn the team around. How much of that is due to the injury? I am not sure. With the way JB runs the ball, it seems pretty likely that we will see Steele at some point regardless.

And running was a big big part of both QB's success. We wouldn't have won many games with both QB's if they weren't able to take off for a few first downs. Jantz lost that ability when he got hurt and it killed the offense. There has been no reason to go back to Jantz since then because we've still been winning.

 

[CloneAbuse]

It's clear that objectivity is lost on some here. Arm strength and athleticism alone do not translate into successful quarterbacking. Steele was a juco for a reason.

Throwing deep doesn't mean you're great, you need to understand and read defenses...and make the right DECISIONS...it has been apparent who has that ability.

 

[Clonefan94]

It's clear that objectivity is lost on some here. Arm strength and athleticism alone do not translate into successful quarterbacking. Steele was a juco for a reason.

Throwing deep doesn't mean you're great, you need to understand and read defenses...and make the right DECISIONS...it has been apparent who has that ability.

This is a pretty much what I was going to say. The read option is key to this offense and Steele was terrible at it.

For some to say that he can be coached up and has room for improvement, you are half right, he has a lot of room for improvement. But honestly, hurt foot or not, he was still making the same mistakes and bad throws that he was making with a good foot 6 games in to the season. It never looked to me that he learned at all from any of his mistakes.

I'm not set on any one guy, I think the coaches will do the right thing and put the guy out there who gives us the best shot. IF that be Jantz, then so be it. But with Tiller ending the season as the starter, if you don't think he has a leg up on the competition, you are fooling yourselves. Tiller will go into Spring ball as the starter. I'm sure there will be competition, but Steele is going to have to improve a whole lot or JB is going to have to really screw up to not retain his position.

I understand that Steele's escapability was reduced by his injury, but that injury cause him to continue to make bad decision after bad decision.

 

[BCClone]

This is a pretty much what I was going to say. The read option is key to this offense and Steele was terrible at it.

For some to say that he can be coached up and has room for improvement, you are half right, he has a lot of room for improvement. But honestly, hurt foot or not, he was still making the same mistakes and bad throws that he was making with a good foot 6 games in to the season. It never looked to me that he learned at all from any of his mistakes.

I'm not set on any one guy, I think the coaches will do the right thing and put the guy out there who gives us the best shot. IF that be Jantz, then so be it. But with Tiller ending the season as the starter, if you don't think he has a leg up on the competition, you are fooling yourselves. Tiller will go into Spring ball as the starter. I'm sure there will be competition, but Steele is going to have to improve a whole lot or JB is going to have to really screw up to not retain his position.

I understand that Steele's escapability was reduced by his injury, but that injury cause him to continue to make bad decision after bad decision.

UUhhh..... Tiller isn't the starter going into spring. Already a receiver from what I've heard.

I am putting my trust in the coaching staff and think they will have a nice competition between two qbs that I would be satisfied with either, and also have a good backup in case of injury.

 

[Al_4_State]

This might be better. Odds are in favor of Jantz showing more improvement than Barnett. Much better odds.

Based on what? You keep spouting your opinion and acting like its a fact.

YOU think Jantz has a better chance to improve.

YOU think Jantz is clearly better than Barnett.

These things are purely your opinions. You don't offer anyrhing concrete to back them up, but want the rest of the board to accept them as facts. That's perposterous.

 

[Incyte]

There really is only one important qb competition - the 2011 season. And JB won.

 

[CrossCyed]

There was no injury when he threw 3 ints on 4 attempts on a very average to poor UCONN team. That had nothing to do with an injury. The first pass int against A&M was nothing to do with an injury...it was happy feet in the pocket...

He may be an athlete, just not a very good QB at the D1 level.

Correct on the first part, wrong on the second part.

He was able to practice through the injury, but he was not technically "healthy" til the end of the regular season.

 

[CrossCyed]

IMO, we can win with either QB, which is all I really care about.

 

[cyhiphopp]

Here's the thing.

We can all agree that Jantz is very talented. However, he only has bowl practices, spring ball, and fall ball to drastically improve his grasp of the offense. He has to improve his decision making and execution in all phases, specifically the zone read.
He does NOT have a lot of time to do it.


It's a very interesting situation. Our RSFr QB is playing more like a season veteran than our soon to be RSSr QB. If the classes were switched and Jantz was the RSFr, he would get all the hype in the world due to his potential. One off season does not give him a lot of time to reach that potential. I just don't know if he can get it done.


Honestly, if we could combine Jantz's raw athletic ability with JBs grasp and execution of the spread offense, we would have an all Big12 caliber QB. JB is a good athlete, but I think there a limits to what he can do passing the ball. He deffinitely has room to progress though and hopefully he will. The staff has said since last spring that Barnett was the most accurate of the QBs. Not all of that has translated to the field yet in my opinion.

Both QBs will improve before next season. Both QBs will probably play at some point next season as well. We run our QBs too much for that not to happen.

 

[CrossCyed]

A lot might depend on the new OC too.