Yes and I have acknowledged that, but its hard to look at that as a positive when the opposite has happened way more often.
toughness
- Thread starter cyfan27
- Start date
Yes and I have acknowledged that, but its hard to look at that as a positive when the opposite has happened way more often.
Not IMO we haven't. @KU is the only game where we shouldn't have won IMO. In all of our other losses, TT, SC, Maryland, Baylor, OU.... we were the better team and should have won.
This team does lack toughness and desire too IMO. It takes toughness to play defense for 40 mins, and we don't do that. And we look like we don't care sometimes too... that's all about lack of desire to be a winner.
Winners can talk smack and be cocky as long as they back it up. Look at Seattle in the NFL. They are a cocky bunch, but they generally back it up. Our guys our cocky, but they don't back it up. They think they are really good, and they should be, but they aren't. They are slightly above average IMO. A team that cannot win away from home isn't all that good.
I hope something clicks and motivates them to play better defense and care about winning and not getting embarrassed, because right now we look like a possible one and done team in the NCAA tourney because we can't get it done at a neutral site or on the road.
Not sure what Fred can do to motivate them? Fred doesn't seem like that kind of guy. The guys just have to want it. Playing defense is all about how bad you want it. Showboaters just play offense... and that's what we are right now.
Nah...he'd have a blast with CFH as his coach more than with anyone else. If you want to go to the "League" and learn how to become a superior offensive player, then Fred's your guy.
"This team does lack toughness and desire too IMO. It takes toughness to play defense for 40 mins, and we don't do that. And we look like we don't care sometimes too... that's all about lack of desire to be a winner." Clonedude
Scoring defense 10th
FG% defense 7th
3 pt FG% defense 8th
Steals 8th
Off Rebound 9th
Def Rebound 6th
Rebounds 6th
FT% 7th
Defense, rebounding, & free throws require desire, toughness, & concentration - which is what clone dude said & is what the stats clearly demonstrate.
On a positive note we lead the league in almost every offensive category!
Statistics are tangible: ISU rank in conference
Scoring defense 10th
FG% defense 7th
3 pt FG% defense 8th
Steals 8th
Off Rebound 9th
Def Rebound 6th
Rebounds 6th
FT% 7th
Defense, rebounding, & free throws require desire, toughness, & concentration - which is what clone dude said & is what the stats clearly demonstrate.
On a positive note we lead the league in almost every offensive category!
Last edited:
Bingo! Thanks for the help.
I knew our defensive stats and rebounding weren't good... as well as our FT's, but I didn't have the exact numbers.
And IMO, most of those things are just a lack of desire and effort... as well as concentration. It's not really as much of a tangible thing that can be coached. You as an individual just have to "want it". Defense is nearly all about effort. Most guys don't want to work on the defensive end, and most of our guys fit that bill.
For some reason, when we're at home, we can get up for games and the effort shows. But when we're on the road or a neutral court, and the crowd isn't on their side, they can't get up the desire to give it their all.
If you play for the name on the front of your jersey instead of the back, that would be a good place to start.
I wasn't responding to anyone in particular. I just find observations like "We need to do a better job blocking out" or "We have to do a better job closing out on shooters" as more insightful than citing squishy ideas like mental toughness.
Besides, to reference that quote you included, does anyone here honestly want to claim that the team doesn't have a desire to win?
Re: Defense Doesn't Develop Overnight
I think that is due to him being rusty from not playing much lately. He looked good early in the season when he was playing more (granted, not against great competition)
I think that is due to him being rusty from not playing much lately. He looked good early in the season when he was playing more (granted, not against great competition)
Also so shows we got some guys not in good enough shape, or are playing too many minutes. Not everyone is like Melvin where he could just play 40 minutes. Mental roughness is really mostly just being in superior physical condition.
Of all the things that have been suggested as a weakness or a reason to cause struggles on the road for this team, the last one that I'd give even a penny's worth of thought to is this team playing for the name on the back of their jersey instead of the front. Wow. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but I think that suggestion is way off and unfair to a brotherhood of guys who have had each other's back all season through good times and bad. AND, have done nothing but praise, tweet thanks, appreciate Hilton crowds, and overall brag about the support of CYCLONEnation. Are there times that include screwups, lapses of intensity, subpar performances, poor shot selections? Sure. But, quite frankly that suggestion about this team is embarassing to me as a fellow Cyclone fan.
Agreed, this notion is not only absurd but embarrassing. After the TT debacle, they've been giving it their all as a team; they are playing very good teams with very good players and coaches. The "desire" card is Talkeye territory. God forbid if this team loses at home! All heck will break loose in parts of this fan base.
The difference between KU/Duke and us is like night and day. Self and K have shown throughout previous seasons that they can consistently get their teams to improve, challenge good teams on the road, and put bad losses behind them. Under Fred we have consistently shown to be midgets away from Hilton. Moreover we have NOT shown improvement throughout the season; I'd say we've actually regressed in many areas.
Every team has bad games. But the ability for the coaches and players to: put those losses behind them, show improvement in areas that are causing those losses, and show improvements in overall team play is lacking with this team.
That's why people are upset, and that's why Kansas is set to win it's 50th straight Big 12 championship. They ALWAYS do those things.
If you honestly believe that you are certifiably insane.
This team is, at worst, the 4th most talented team in the conference. We are NOT getting beat on talent, rather on hustle, savvy (we make more boneheaded mistakes and decisions than most teams in the conference), desire, and FT shooting.
Part of the problem is Fred has created a culture of chucking bad shots, and when that happens there are no corrective measures. Timeouts aren't taken nor are players pulled. We shot the ball well in the first half because we had GREAT ball movement, and took open, in-rhythm shots. The effort in the 2nd half was pathetic, which resulted in poor defense, little offensive movement, and ergo poor shots. Neither the players nor the coaches had the recognition or savvy to call timeouts and/or take the reigns.
Saying we have a lack of talent is nothing but a cop-out for our effort, coaching and FT shooting. All which need to be immensely improved.
With how well teams seem to shoot against us, I'm surprised we're 7th & 8th. Think how disheartened the fans of those teams worse than us must be. Feels like teams make everything against us and we're not even the worst!
Actually I think one of the traits of Fred's teams is that they improve and play their best basketball at the end of the year. He's had a few clunkers but also has had some big road wins and is usually competitive. Compare Fred's road record and scores with Johnny Orr's, who is considered one of our great coaches. Too many of us thought this was the year to end the KU conference streak since they looked bad in some of their non-conference games, but they have a young improving team and Kansas is still Kansas. Crazy things can still happen in the next month, we're 1-1 against them and can still beat them in Kansas City. And OU is playing as well as anybody in the conference right now. I just don't get some of the panic with some fans right now and people need to remember the GMac years when they get frustrated about an occasional loss.
We have regressed in free throws and rebounding and in shooting percentage and maybe in turnovers. That is a lot. Maybe the competition is too good.
When you look at league races, the teams looking good on the conference road are Kentucky, Kansas, Virginia, and Wiscy for power five.
For semipower five are Tulsa, Gonzaga, Witchita State, and UNI.
That is not too many teams.
Last edited:
From 2006-2007 through 2010-2011, ISU finished in the bottom three slots of the Big 12, when there were 12 teams. We're currently in 3rd place of the conference that has 6 ranked teams. Sure, there are some things that can improved, but man, what we're seeing is so much better and fun to watch than what we had not too long ago.
