toughness

clonedude

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Apr 16, 2006
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Complaining about lack of focus, toughness, composure? Other than TT, we have won the games that we should have. Hard to complain about that. All I have to do is think about how painful it was to watch our team in the McD days and things look pretty good now.

I hope we shore up FT shooting, but other than that I love watching this team. Can't wait to see the damage this team does in the tourney. Nobody will want to see IOWA STATE in their bracket.

Not IMO we haven't. @KU is the only game where we shouldn't have won IMO. In all of our other losses, TT, SC, Maryland, Baylor, OU.... we were the better team and should have won.

This team does lack toughness and desire too IMO. It takes toughness to play defense for 40 mins, and we don't do that. And we look like we don't care sometimes too... that's all about lack of desire to be a winner.

Winners can talk smack and be cocky as long as they back it up. Look at Seattle in the NFL. They are a cocky bunch, but they generally back it up. Our guys our cocky, but they don't back it up. They think they are really good, and they should be, but they aren't. They are slightly above average IMO. A team that cannot win away from home isn't all that good.

I hope something clicks and motivates them to play better defense and care about winning and not getting embarrassed, because right now we look like a possible one and done team in the NCAA tourney because we can't get it done at a neutral site or on the road.

Not sure what Fred can do to motivate them? Fred doesn't seem like that kind of guy. The guys just have to want it. Playing defense is all about how bad you want it. Showboaters just play offense... and that's what we are right now.
 

Dingus

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Not that there isn't any truth to it, but I sometimes think when people complain about toughness, leadership, etc., what it really means is the team loses and they can't come up with something tangible to blame it on.
 

Wesley

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When the team cannot heed the proverbial "wake-up" calls, it is our job as fans to adjust expectations because, in the end, weaknesses are weaknesses. They are good, and at times invigorating to watch, but this team is simply not as talented overall as we all might have imagined. I've been banging this drum since the TT performance. And as I wrote above, "There was way too much talk of FFours and Conf Championships that offset the reality of this team's weaknesses in many minds and that is really too bad."

With that being said, there is something about Spanky's line about the snooze button that I find hilarious!

Shhhh, that might hurt Diallo recruiting...
 

niangstermvp

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Mar 1, 2014
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"This team does lack toughness and desire too IMO. It takes toughness to play defense for 40 mins, and we don't do that. And we look like we don't care sometimes too... that's all about lack of desire to be a winner." Clonedude

Not that there isn't any truth to it, but I sometimes think when people complain about toughness, leadership, etc., what it really means is the team loses and they can't come up with something tangible to blame it on.
Statistics are tangible: ISU rank in conference
Scoring defense 10th
FG% defense 7th
3 pt FG% defense 8th
Steals 8th

Off Rebound 9th
Def Rebound 6th
Rebounds 6th

FT% 7th

Defense, rebounding, & free throws require desire, toughness, & concentration - which is what clone dude said & is what the stats clearly demonstrate.

On a positive note we lead the league in almost every offensive category!
 
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clonedude

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"This team does lack toughness and desire too IMO. It takes toughness to play defense for 40 mins, and we don't do that. And we look like we don't care sometimes too... that's all about lack of desire to be a winner." Clonedude


Statistics are tangible: ISU rank in conference
Scoring defense 10th
FG% defense 7th
3 pt FG% defense 8th
Steals 8th

Off Rebound 9th
Def Rebound 6th
Rebounds 6th

FT% 7th

Defense, rebounding, & free throws require desire, toughness, & concentration - which is what clone dude said & is what the stats clearly demonstrate.

On a positive note we lead the league in almost every offensive category!

Bingo! Thanks for the help.

I knew our defensive stats and rebounding weren't good... as well as our FT's, but I didn't have the exact numbers.

And IMO, most of those things are just a lack of desire and effort... as well as concentration. It's not really as much of a tangible thing that can be coached. You as an individual just have to "want it". Defense is nearly all about effort. Most guys don't want to work on the defensive end, and most of our guys fit that bill.

For some reason, when we're at home, we can get up for games and the effort shows. But when we're on the road or a neutral court, and the crowd isn't on their side, they can't get up the desire to give it their all.

If you play for the name on the front of your jersey instead of the back, that would be a good place to start.
 

Dingus

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May 23, 2013
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"This team does lack toughness and desire too IMO. It takes toughness to play defense for 40 mins, and we don't do that. And we look like we don't care sometimes too... that's all about lack of desire to be a winner." Clonedude


Statistics are tangible: ISU rank in conference
Scoring defense 10th
FG% defense 7th
3 pt FG% defense 8th
Steals 8th

Off Rebound 9th
Def Rebound 6th
Rebounds 6th

FT% 7th

Defense, rebounding, & free throws require desire, toughness, & concentration - which is what clone dude said & is what the stats clearly demonstrate.

On a positive note we lead the league in almost every offensive category!

I wasn't responding to anyone in particular. I just find observations like "We need to do a better job blocking out" or "We have to do a better job closing out on shooters" as more insightful than citing squishy ideas like mental toughness.

Besides, to reference that quote you included, does anyone here honestly want to claim that the team doesn't have a desire to win?
 

CarlHungus

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Feb 19, 2012
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Re: Defense Doesn't Develop Overnight

He may be a physical specimen but he can't seem to grab rebounds or passes to him for that matter. Just look at the TT game the other day he is in garbage time and had at least 3 rebounds bounce off his hands. Another game a while back everytime someone passed it to him he bobbled it and lost it. I love the guy but he is an offensive liability and if he can't at least grab an easy rebound there is no reason for him to see meaningful playing time.

I think that is due to him being rusty from not playing much lately. He looked good early in the season when he was playing more (granted, not against great competition)
 

Wesley

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Not that there isn't any truth to it, but I sometimes think when people complain about toughness, leadership, etc., what it really means is the team loses and they can't come up with something tangible to blame it on.

Turnovers, free throws, and offensive rebounding.
 

cyatheart

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"This team does lack toughness and desire too IMO. It takes toughness to play defense for 40 mins, and we don't do that. And we look like we don't care sometimes too... that's all about lack of desire to be a winner." Clonedude


Statistics are tangible: ISU rank in conference
Scoring defense 10th
FG% defense 7th
3 pt FG% defense 8th
Steals 8th

Off Rebound 9th
Def Rebound 6th
Rebounds 6th

FT% 7th

Defense, rebounding, & free throws require desire, toughness, & concentration - which is what clone dude said & is what the stats clearly demonstrate.

On a positive note we lead the league in almost every offensive category!


Also so shows we got some guys not in good enough shape, or are playing too many minutes. Not everyone is like Melvin where he could just play 40 minutes. Mental roughness is really mostly just being in superior physical condition.
 

allfourcy

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Bingo! Thanks for the help.

I knew our defensive stats and rebounding weren't good... as well as our FT's, but I didn't have the exact numbers.

And IMO, most of those things are just a lack of desire and effort... as well as concentration. It's not really as much of a tangible thing that can be coached. You as an individual just have to "want it". Defense is nearly all about effort. Most guys don't want to work on the defensive end, and most of our guys fit that bill.

For some reason, when we're at home, we can get up for games and the effort shows. But when we're on the road or a neutral court, and the crowd isn't on their side, they can't get up the desire to give it their all.

If you play for the name on the front of your jersey instead of the back, that would be a good place to start.

Of all the things that have been suggested as a weakness or a reason to cause struggles on the road for this team, the last one that I'd give even a penny's worth of thought to is this team playing for the name on the back of their jersey instead of the front. Wow. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but I think that suggestion is way off and unfair to a brotherhood of guys who have had each other's back all season through good times and bad. AND, have done nothing but praise, tweet thanks, appreciate Hilton crowds, and overall brag about the support of CYCLONEnation. Are there times that include screwups, lapses of intensity, subpar performances, poor shot selections? Sure. But, quite frankly that suggestion about this team is embarassing to me as a fellow Cyclone fan.
 

DesignerClone

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Of all the things that have been suggested as a weakness or a reason to cause struggles on the road for this team, the last one that I'd give even a penny's worth of thought to is this team playing for the name on the back of their jersey instead of the front. Wow. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but I think that suggestion is way off and unfair to a brotherhood of guys who have had each other's back all season through good times and bad. AND, have done nothing but praise, tweet thanks, appreciate Hilton crowds, and overall brag about the support of CYCLONEnation. Are there times that include screwups, lapses of intensity, subpar performances, poor shot selections? Sure. But, quite frankly that suggestion about this team is embarassing to me as a fellow Cyclone fan.

Agreed, this notion is not only absurd but embarrassing. After the TT debacle, they've been giving it their all as a team; they are playing very good teams with very good players and coaches. The "desire" card is Talkeye territory. God forbid if this team loses at home! All heck will break loose in parts of this fan base.
 

ZRF

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3sus people, did Coach K have to put up with this crap when he lost a couple in a row before getting to 1000? What about Bill Self when he lost to KY by 30 and Temple by 25 this year. The season in 30+ games and I expect a couple down games especially away from home. I'm not mad you're not a Hoi Boi but I am being realistic just like you

The difference between KU/Duke and us is like night and day. Self and K have shown throughout previous seasons that they can consistently get their teams to improve, challenge good teams on the road, and put bad losses behind them. Under Fred we have consistently shown to be midgets away from Hilton. Moreover we have NOT shown improvement throughout the season; I'd say we've actually regressed in many areas.

Every team has bad games. But the ability for the coaches and players to: put those losses behind them, show improvement in areas that are causing those losses, and show improvements in overall team play is lacking with this team.

That's why people are upset, and that's why Kansas is set to win it's 50th straight Big 12 championship. They ALWAYS do those things.
 

ZRF

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Maybe it is we, the fans, that need to wakeup? Look around the Big 12. Talent wise we should not finish in the top-half of the conference, yet Hoiberg has us competing for that in addition to a 4th straight tournament. Don't hate on this team and staff just because you ignored common sense and thought a team that lost its two best players would be better by early February. Wakeup and enjoy this team and support the staff and players.

If you honestly believe that you are certifiably insane.

This team is, at worst, the 4th most talented team in the conference. We are NOT getting beat on talent, rather on hustle, savvy (we make more boneheaded mistakes and decisions than most teams in the conference), desire, and FT shooting.

Part of the problem is Fred has created a culture of chucking bad shots, and when that happens there are no corrective measures. Timeouts aren't taken nor are players pulled. We shot the ball well in the first half because we had GREAT ball movement, and took open, in-rhythm shots. The effort in the 2nd half was pathetic, which resulted in poor defense, little offensive movement, and ergo poor shots. Neither the players nor the coaches had the recognition or savvy to call timeouts and/or take the reigns.

Saying we have a lack of talent is nothing but a cop-out for our effort, coaching and FT shooting. All which need to be immensely improved.
 

CYKOFAN

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Mar 27, 2006
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The difference between KU/Duke and us is like night and day. Self and K have shown throughout previous seasons that they can consistently get their teams to improve, challenge good teams on the road, and put bad losses behind them. Under Fred we have consistently shown to be midgets away from Hilton. Moreover we have NOT shown improvement throughout the season; I'd say we've actually regressed in many areas.

Every team has bad games. But the ability for the coaches and players to: put those losses behind them, show improvement in areas that are causing those losses, and show improvements in overall team play is lacking with this team.

That's why people are upset, and that's why Kansas is set to win it's 50th straight Big 12 championship. They ALWAYS do those things.

Actually I think one of the traits of Fred's teams is that they improve and play their best basketball at the end of the year. He's had a few clunkers but also has had some big road wins and is usually competitive. Compare Fred's road record and scores with Johnny Orr's, who is considered one of our great coaches. Too many of us thought this was the year to end the KU conference streak since they looked bad in some of their non-conference games, but they have a young improving team and Kansas is still Kansas. Crazy things can still happen in the next month, we're 1-1 against them and can still beat them in Kansas City. And OU is playing as well as anybody in the conference right now. I just don't get some of the panic with some fans right now and people need to remember the GMac years when they get frustrated about an occasional loss.
 

Wesley

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The difference between KU/Duke and us is like night and day. Self and K have shown throughout previous seasons that they can consistently get their teams to improve, challenge good teams on the road, and put bad losses behind them. Under Fred we have consistently shown to be midgets away from Hilton. Moreover we have NOT shown improvement throughout the season; I'd say we've actually regressed in many areas.

Every team has bad games. But the ability for the coaches and players to: put those losses behind them, show improvement in areas that are causing those losses, and show improvements in overall team play is lacking with this team.

That's why people are upset, and that's why Kansas is set to win it's 50th straight Big 12 championship. They ALWAYS do those things.

We have regressed in free throws and rebounding and in shooting percentage and maybe in turnovers. That is a lot. Maybe the competition is too good.

When you look at league races, the teams looking good on the conference road are Kentucky, Kansas, Virginia, and Wiscy for power five.

For semipower five are Tulsa, Gonzaga, Witchita State, and UNI.

That is not too many teams.
 
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urb1

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From 2006-2007 through 2010-2011, ISU finished in the bottom three slots of the Big 12, when there were 12 teams. We're currently in 3rd place of the conference that has 6 ranked teams. Sure, there are some things that can improved, but man, what we're seeing is so much better and fun to watch than what we had not too long ago.
 

CYKOFAN

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From 2006-2007 through 2010-2011, ISU finished in the bottom three slots of the Big 12, when there were 12 teams. We're currently in 3rd place of the conference that has 6 ranked teams. Sure, there are some things that can improved, but man, what we're seeing is so much better and fun to watch than what we had not too long ago.

Well said!!