ISU's academic rankings decline continues
- Thread starter Cypow
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This statement, which I also believe to be true, proves that these rankings have nothing to do with educating students. And for that reason should not be used by anyone to choose a school for themselves or their kids. It is these IVY league schools that are destroying their value.
These rankings, if not about education outcomes, then what do they measure? It's ALL about Coastal education/academic elitism. That's why they care about keeping most people out, fancy doctorate numbers, and it's mostly all a freaking survey. This survey is all about some elitist club, if you care about that then fine, go with the rankings. But I, for one, couldn't give a damn.
At least you and I agree public finances in this country have been seriously (and probably criminally, if this was done in the private sector instead of the public sector) mismanaged over the past few decades.
I figure you are familiar with the signaling model of education. If not, enjoy --
https://www.econlib.org/archives/2011/11/the_magic_of_ed.html
The way we treat higher education and these rankings makes perfect sense if you view it through the lens of labor market and socioeconomic signaling, rather than through the "human capital" model.
What are pension plans? You mean those things which major corporations have all but abandoned? You mean those things which the government puts its money into 'thinking' it will grow disproportionately to GDP? You mean, those things which purportedly have been wrought with criminal management? Oh. Those things. One should never look to someone else who has no financial motivation to manage your personal wealth. Least of all, the government.
Good thread with generally well thought discussions which is very rare on CF lately. Thanks, I have enjoyed reading this thread.
In 10 years it will be interesting what significant changes have occurred because of Covid.
Rankings won't be the problem, the problem will be how many people value the social interaction of an on campus college education, and how many are satisfied with an on-line degree from the University of New Hampshire.
In 10 years it will be interesting what significant changes have occurred because of Covid.
Rankings won't be the problem, the problem will be how many people value the social interaction of an on campus college education, and how many are satisfied with an on-line degree from the University of New Hampshire.
Don't think the primary role of the research University is to teach job skills. Certainly, the knowledge gained from an Aerospace degree makes one more valuable to Boeing, but it does not qualify you to desgn the next F35.
On the other hand, research done by the PhD's in Aerospace MIGHT lead to the next iteration of the Stealth Bomber. Or, to bring it home to Iowa, the PhD in Agriculture reasearch might increase crop yields. Don't think most AG grads learned how to drive a tractor at ISU, but if they went into farming, they sure learned the value of using GPS for fertilizer application, even if they don't know how to write computer code.
Think of Atanasoff, a MATH professor at ISU, who invented the first digital computer. His goal was to lessen the time it took to solve complex multivariable equations, not to have Siri find music for you. Yet his vision and research, albeit along with others, created that ability. I know there continues to be that type of research at ISU, but it seems to be more indusry driven, as grants and investment by industry are increasingly needed to fund these activities.
On the other hand, research done by the PhD's in Aerospace MIGHT lead to the next iteration of the Stealth Bomber. Or, to bring it home to Iowa, the PhD in Agriculture reasearch might increase crop yields. Don't think most AG grads learned how to drive a tractor at ISU, but if they went into farming, they sure learned the value of using GPS for fertilizer application, even if they don't know how to write computer code.
Think of Atanasoff, a MATH professor at ISU, who invented the first digital computer. His goal was to lessen the time it took to solve complex multivariable equations, not to have Siri find music for you. Yet his vision and research, albeit along with others, created that ability. I know there continues to be that type of research at ISU, but it seems to be more indusry driven, as grants and investment by industry are increasingly needed to fund these activities.
A decent article. This line is very accurate.
"Good students tend to be smart, hard-working, and conformist – three crucial traits for almost any job. "
Check, mostly check. complete fail. That's where I went "wrong". Probably why my grades went down the more I was in school, I was gaining wisdom and it was leading me against the system I was supposed to be
A lot of these systems and perhaps failures can be traced further back to the Prussian or Industrialization of Education.
They saw the pile of money sitting there, and think, "we can just use that and pay it back at a later date, instead of raising taxes." For many elected officials they just believe it will not be their problem when the s**t hits the fan, because they will not be in office. So they kicked the problem down the road, used the money and could go out and say, "I didn't raise your taxes" in their next reelection campaign.
Just like the Feds did with SS, well now its coming back to roost and they still do not want to raise taxes to make up the difference.
It pains me to see this happen. I’ve seen some comments saying that there is nothing we can do about it... but is that so? I don’t know the answer, but would donations, or maybe joining the alumni association help some? I know this won’t solve all or even most of the issues, but maybe it can help some? I don’t know, just spitballing some ideas here. Alumni membership is fairly cheap, but not sure how much it actually helps the university itself.
So after reading this thread, it appears that the best way to get our ranking up is to treat the rankings like they do the Oscars in the movie business. Spend a lot of money marketing the people that fill out the surveys!
Care to tell me what the states used that money for instead of appropriate funding their pensions?
IMHO, the ISU Foundation's goal is to help the Institution. Alumni Association focuses on graduates, not that we're not important.
Yep, need to create jobs for all those marketing grads we are turning out! Kill two birds with one stone.
I think you are maybe more right on what the goal should be but society as a whole particularly businesses have treated college as their training program.
Donating is always helpful. It's not the solution to the problem by any means, but it can help.
People with average incomes usually see the massive donations given by big donors and think that they can't make a difference. If every alumni gave a small amount, it adds up to something substantial. The 80/20 rule probably applies here, 20% of donors are providing 80% of donations. It doesn't have to be this way. Give what you can!
I know this can quickly get political, so I'll tread lightly here, but I would recommend people carefully consider the issue in upcoming elections. Just think about how much higher education and investment in the state matter to you, alongside other issues.
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The rankings are about more than educational outcomes. From the beginning, these universities have existed to produce research. This research propels economic growth around universities, brings in external capital, and is an overall benefit to society. These rankings put high value on research productivity, which is not something the average student coming through ISU for an English degree is thinking about.
Most major universities have never existed purely to educate students. Educating students and producing research are their two main functions. While you may not see the direct, tangible benefits of research, I promise you, they are there, and they are significant.
Regarding your other point, the rankings might seem somewhat elitist, but they have a real world impact on the university. We simply cannot afford to ignore them because we don't like where we currently stand in them.
Far fewer people were complaining about the rankings when we were a top 50 - top 100 university. The further we drop, the louder people decry the rankings' methodologies and elitism.
I've said it many times, but the rankings themselves are not hugely important to me. It is what they signal that is important. If we ignore the signs of decline because "academics rankings are pointless and elitist" the university will surely continue to suffer.
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I do agree that the chaff, like me
, who does not go on to advance degrees has a basis valuable to industry, and without such undergrads, the public research University could not exist at its current level, so that level of education is needed to "man" industrial america. However, I don't think curricula should be driven by training for industry, it is a side benefit for industry, which does fill corporate ranks and gives jobs to grads. Yes that should be part of the equation, but perhaps exercises too much influence due to funding needs at a cost to pure academic research.To Ayn-Rand-ists, paying for your retirement, paying for your health care, is worthless. It's nothing but political patronage. Paying a DMV employee's retirement is the canonical example of government "waste and fraud" to this guy.
"A return for society". **** you old people. **** you DMV clerks. **** you school teachers.
But... it doesn't stop there. This consultant attitude is ascendant far beyond government. **** you... anyone who works for their paycheck. **** you... anyone who is to old, hurt, or young to be useful right now. **** you if you are too poor to be "generating a return on investment".
